Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!ysub!psuvm!mbs110 From: MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (That neat guy, Mark Sachs) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: Blitter vs. 040 (was: Computer Architecture question Message-ID: <91136.174737MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 16 May 91 21:47:37 GMT References: <1991May15.125954.1993@NCoast.ORG> <1991May16.045252.7706@NCoast.ORG> <7haHkcs5@cs.psu.edu> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 85 In article <7haHkcs5@cs.psu.edu>, melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) says: > >In article <1991May16.045252.7706@NCoast.ORG> davewt@NCoast.ORG (David Wright) >writes: > > >rate. NeXT year people aren't going to be asking if they should buy a > >486 instead of an Amiga, it's going to be SPEC 30+ Compaq machine. As > Oh please, what planet do YOU live on. nExt year people will STILL > be using DOS, nExt year people will STILL be debating which VGA board to > use (or is XGA worth your while? Inside 3 brand-new(TM) reports!). > As it is the 2nd largest population of PC clones owned for the home STILL > have EGA or less graphics, and '286 machines are still selling well. > And you actually believe people will move to an INCOMPATIBLE chip, with > ZERO support or software, when the whole Windows/OS-2/PM slop is still > being fought? Get real. > >[irrelevant handwaving about NeXT's PC emulation and SPECmarks deleted] And you think this is going to change people's minds? The NeXT emulating a PC costs scads more than a PC. Result: Businesses buy PC's rather than move to an expensive, untested, incompatible platform made by a shaky company with no name recognition. (And please, don't start blathering about "it's not untested, etc. etc..." Right or wrong, that's how the suits perceive NeXT. The only way they'll buy NeXT is if it offers some smashingly super new application IBM can't provide. Macintosh does desktop publishing; Amiga does video and multimedia. What does NeXT do? Well, uh...) > >I was trying to demonstrate with my 030 + blitter < 040 argument. > I would never argue otherwise. What I WOULD argue is that > 68030+blitter>68030, and 68040+blitter>68040, which is obvious to anyone > with a brain bigger than that of a stegasaurus. > >Right, but adding N to N doubles your performance, while adding N to >3N gives you 33% more power(going from a 25MHz 040 to 33MHz one will >do this). Of course, we just can't add the mips, because the blitter >is dedicate to graphics. So, which chip do you let do the graphics? >The one that does N mips or 3N mips? That's it; you've out-weirded me. I don't see the point of your first statement at all. Where in the world are you getting N + N in a NeXT? Is there another 68040 hidden in there that Jobs isn't telling us about? Quite simply, the 68040 NeXT has N. The 68040 Amiga has N + 1/3 N. Period. (Actually it's more like N + 1/2 N, but for the sake of argument...) You are desperately trying to make it look like having an extra coprocessor chip to do the graphics is a liability. That is ludicrous. To answer your question: The timewasting graphics tasks are offloaded to the N mips processor (blitter), while the 3N mips processor (68040) gets on with all the difficult CPU-type calculations. Together, the two finish long before the NeXT's lone 68040, which is desperately switching between graphics and calculations and as a result is left in the dust, thanks to the tragic lack of any coprocessor at all. > >Not necessarily. Can I pick the 1 CPU? I would think that it depends > Sure, but unless you missed the point, whatever you pick I also > get, PLUS I get another CPU as well. > >The value of the blitter diminishes as you add it to a faster CPU. >Adding it to HP's 57 mip Snake($12K) isn't going to do shit. Well, to >be fair, it will probably get in the way. Non sequitor. We are NOT adding it to HP's 57 mip Snake. If it ever gets to the point that the Amiga CPU is running at 57 mips, presumably the old blitter will have been ditched long ago in favor of a new, much faster one. What say we resume this discussion in 2005 and see what happened. Today, in 1991, the blitter still adds a lot of speed and functionality to the Amiga, which the NeXT does NOT have. >Let me know how well the 88K or R4000 fits into the current Amiga when >it comes time to make a bigger and better Amiga. Or is Commodore >going to wait for the 050? Let me know how well the 88K or R4000 (I love these magic numbers Mike keeps throwing around) fits into your current NeXT when it comes time to make a bigger and better NeXT. Oh, you can't fit them into your current NeXT, because it's unexpandable. Sorry. (Yes, it's a cheap shot but I think I deserve one after trying to reason with this guy.) /Mark "Remixed for Common Household Appliances" Sachs IS: MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu\ | STEVEVAX Administration HQ, World Domination & Bake Sales Ltd. || //AMIGA|| | DISCLAIMER: It's NOT MY FAULT. Kei and Yuri forced me to say it.||\X/ Power|| \== "I think this calls for some diabolical laughter! RAAH HA HA HA HA HA!" ==/