Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!stanford.edu!agate!ucbvax!microsoft.UUCP!davewh From: davewh@microsoft.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Windows 3.0 Message-ID: <9105161702.AA27651@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Date: 15 May 91 12:57:24 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 100 ACMFIU talks about Windows: (sorry, but I can't do direct quoting, so there will be paraphrasing.) point 1 states that Windows is too slow. I use Win3.0 on a Compaq 386/20e and it runs satisfactorally. It's at least faster than my GS at home. point 2 complains about it running on top of DOS. This is, actually, irrelevant. It uses DOS for file I/O and that's about it. It does it's own memory management, and if you have a 386 and 1MB+, it'll do virtual memory too. point 3 states that keyboard UI is not consistent across programs. This is/isn't true. The menu accelerators are, for the most part, consistent. There are 2 ways at getting at menus: the accelerator and the hot key (dunno if these are the correct names, though). One can type ALT-F, ALT-S to save, or possibly hit some function key instead (yeah, TWO keystrokes to invoke menu commands - I don't like it). File/Save is consistent - the function keys sometimes aren't. point 4 talks about the Finder. Yeah, the "finder" sucks for doing file manipulation. The File Manager is supposed to do that. The Program Manager (the finder) is designed to just organize things. The windows have no relation to directory structure and the icon names have no relation to the file names. I find it useful for what it's supposed to do, but I'd rather have a Finder. point 5 talks about required hardware. I can't answer on this since I'm sure what Windows really requires. I know I have a vanilla Compaq 386/20e - 100mb drive, 5mb ram; *almost* what you might call common for the average business customer (that's why we use 'em for testing). point 6 mentions that the learning curve for Windows is steeper than for MacOS. I completely disagree. Windows was so simple to learn. I'm up and running after only 3 months of working here. I don't know where this 9 month learning curve came from, but not from here. point 7 talks about how quickly a user can come up to speed. It's harder for to judge this since I'm not exactly an average user. I do think moving to a new computer platform, whatever it may be, takes some people more time than others. People feel intimidated by the machine. Just to make a point, at my old job there was a newhire who had her experience on unix machines. She just couldn't stand using the Macs we had. Found them too hard to use. Now, for running Windows-based applications, it's not any harder to learn to use them than it is to learn to use a Mac-based program. Same thing for programs on a NeXT - they're all pretty simple. point 8 talks about desktop publishers. Well, people doing serious desktop publishing probably shouldn't be using dinky computers anyway. Dinky computers running dinky DTP software do just fine for your average weekly or monthly newsletter or what-have-you. I would presume that PageMaker is mighty similar in capabilities across the platforms. This is to the company's advantage as then they can say, "hey, we work in a mixed environment!" Just take a look at Excel 3.0 - everything about it is virtually identical between the Mac and Windows versions. In fact, the two versions can read each other's files as they are the same format. Any company that does otherwise is foolish. point 9 mentions how Windows fails to fully abstract the machine away. I agree. Some people like this, though (I don't). point 10 says Microsoft owns it. Well of course we own it. We wrote it. Legal battles aside, we wrote it. The programming paradigm is so different from the MacOS that I really doubt that code was stolen (which was mentioned some time ago). Saying that Microsoft owns something is a point against it a stupid argument. That's like saying a car brand sucks because your hated 6th grade teacher owns one. point 11 I don't understand. A GUI is a UI which runs with windows and mice and pointing, clicking, dragging, etc. Windows, MacOS, GS/OS, X, Open Look, GEM, GEOS are all GUIs. My big point here is that most of you appear to be pretty closed-minded. I'm still a big Apple fan - I'll keep programming on my GS as long as it functions. It's just that there are other computers and programming and user environments out there. None of them are the end-all to computing power. Everything has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Yet you people insist on hitting hard against something that seems a threat. I was just as much a Windows basher as the rest of you until I had to learn to live with it. Now I see that it's not so bad as the Mac press made it out to be. In fact, it's much better than the Mac press said it was. How many people here use Windows daily as part of their job? I used Macs daily as part of my job for 3 1/2 years. Now I use Windows and Presentation Manager as part of my job. They all work just fine. If you haven't *really* used Windows as part of your daily existence, then you haven't got a right to bash it. Now, if you do use all the time and you don't like it, then fine - you don't like it. There are things I don't like (as I've already mentioned) and there are things I do like. But that's true of every environment I've used. Dave Whitney Microsoft Corp, Work Group Apps dcw@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu or I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII - send me bug reports. {...}!uunet!microsoft!davewh I only work here. All opinions herein aren't Bill's, they're mine. "We're samplin' - Yeah we're doin' it. We take good music an' we ruin it." -- "Rap Isn't Music"