Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!apple!robg From: robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hypercard Subject: Re: Hypercard 2.1...(long & slightly off-subject!) Summary: Are corporations grubby money grabbers? Message-ID: <53000@apple.Apple.COM> Date: 17 May 91 07:26:29 GMT References: <3586@spim.mips.COM> <32946@usc> Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA Lines: 144 OK, usually, I just stand by and let comments (both pro and con Apple and any other companies) go by...Perhpas I should do that in this case, but this article touched a nerve. UP FRONT NOTE: These are MY opinions, not Apple's, nor those of any other company I mention. Most of my examples will quote IBM and Apple, but only because those are the two firms for which I've worked. Before I start, I should also mention that I'm a Finance major (BS and MBA); I hack only for the fun of it :-). At both IBM and Apple, I did work/do work in the Finance/Treasury organizations. I have a good understaning of corporate finance, and the hows/whys of corporate existence... In article <32946@usc> kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman) writes: > >say that you should never trust Apple. They are corporate entity whose >sole purpose is to make money. Any thing you heard about them being ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >anything more than that was sales hype. I don't think this is true of Apple, and (more importantly) I don't think this is true of MOST corporations. If this were true, then I wouldn't be able to quote examples like these: * IBM donating MILLIONS of dollars to charity through employee and company matching donations. Similar programs exist at many other corporations. * Most US companies donate heavily to universities. At IBM, I would donate $250 to my old school, and IBM would DOUBLE or TRIPLE this amount, to make my net donation over $750. * IBM, Apple, and other companies donating money, people, and resources to help the Bay area recover from the October 1989 earthquake. * Apple donating large sums of money to the K-12 education markets throughout the USA, and asking nothing in return. * Corporate programs, such as IBM's sabbatical program, that offer employed professionals the opportunity to spend >one year< (on full salary) teaching at high schools and colleges (primarily schools that have budget problems). IBM covers all of the employees expenses (relative to the teaching), so that the school district has the free use of an experienced professional. I could go on and on and on, but I hope you see my point. None of these things HAVE to be done. You can argue that they are all simply 'gimmicks' to increase sales in the long run. If this is true, it's an expensive way to do it. IBM (and Apple, or any other company) would get a much better return out of spending this money on advertising, price reductions, further R&D, etc. I support the theory that the companies have begun to realize that they not only need to be profitable, but that they must be 'good neighbors', as well. Any company that ignores its social responsibilities will not last long in today's environment. (And the following, just to make this somewhat relevant to comp.sys.mac. hypercard ;-) If Apple were only out to make scads of money, they (my opinions, remember!) would never have given away the original Hypercard. Bill Atkinson agreement or no, they would've found a way to charge for the product. Also, while were on the subjects of giveaways, drop by your local IBM (or Compaq or AST or ...) dealer and ask for a free copy of the latest version of DOS or Windows. Go ahead, bring your own disks, and tell him that you just need the latest version of the software...I think you'd be asked for about $70 for DOS 4.01. And what do you get? A basic operating system! Oh yea, and a tutorial...Given that Apple spent three years developing System 7, I think their pricing actions seem extremely fair. You can still get the software for FREE, from many sources! Try telling this to your IBM dealer... Dealer: Let me get this straight ... your telling me they POSTED their system software to a BBS? Why? Once again, if it was Apple's intention to simply make a ton of money on System 7, the purchase price would be significant, and there'd be no free distribution channels at all! A recent glance through the paper showed Windows 3.0 selling for $109. For a SHELL that sits on top of the operating system. At the worst, System 7 will set you back $99, for the WHOLE (8 disks worth!) operating system, with a set a nice manuals. Just to close this off, let me add that I do believe that corporations are in business to make money. Apple could certainly do more to give away more of its income. System 7, Hypercard, and the other associated products could be distributed free, with manuals, to all current Mac owners. BUT the problem with this is, we need income to fund the R&D that keeps these neat products coming! Companies have tried the 'give it away' strategy before. It appears to work in the short term, but long term results are almost always predictable - bankruptcy. If you don't charge enough to cover your costs and fund future development, you aren't going to last very long. (And, don't forget, Apple (along with 95% of the Fortune 1000) is a public company. We not only have to keep customers happy, but we have to keep the investors happy, too. This may be a problem with American business, but it's almost intrinsic to doing big business here!) > >(Note, there are decent, hard-working, well-meaning people working at >Apple. But, their good intentions mean nothing unless they are in >positions of power. If they feel offended by my remarks, then they >have a lot of growing up to do.) I'm certainly not offended by your remarks. But in my experience, the people I've met at Apple are much more than "decent, hard-working, [and] well-meaning." I think there's a different description to cover the people that labored for years on System 7, Hypercard, Apple Share, and any other number of highly innovative products. These people work 20 hours days; many have cots in their offices; and a very good number of them don't see family and friends for weeks at a time as introductions approach...Many also do things in their spare time, such as supporting the FTP site on apple.com. Nothing in their job description says they have to do this. Kevin Calhoun and the rest of the Hypercard team aren't required to read comp.sys.mac.hypercard, and answer user's questions, comments, and concerns (Right, Kevin??). But they do... To me, this is dedication to an ideal; not just "hard working well-meaning" people. And as long as bright people like these remain devoted to their goals, Apple will continue to introduce products that amaze and delight...As an independent (I'm not in the product groups!) observer, I would like to thank them all for their efforts on the company's, and on the public's, behalf! Well, I feel better! :-) But seriously, I hope you'll reconsider your statement that the sole goal of any corporation is profits... Oh yea, for the record...I hope we find a way to continue the current distribution of HyperCard. It was this package that really got me interested in the Macintosh all those years ago... rob griffiths -- The above named individual (hereinafter the "signee") doth swear that the opinions and topics (hereinafter the "lousy logic") presented are in no way representative of the opinions of the company (hereinafter "The Company"). The Company, in fact, may use the lousy logic as a precursory argument in insanity hearings begun for the signee's benefit. -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | R. Griffiths | "Those who make peaceful resolution impossible | | Apple Computer, Inc. | will make violent revolution inevitable" JFK | |----------------------| | | PP-ASEL(Glider soon) | "Of course you realize this means war!" Bugs Bunny | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/