Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!yale!bunker!wtm From: bac@lcuxa.uucp (Barbara Charles) Newsgroups: misc.handicap Subject: Re: Calling All deafies! Message-ID: <15705@handicap.news> Date: 16 May 91 13:51:29 GMT Sender: wtm@bunker.isc-br.com Reply-To: bac@lcuxa.uucp (Barbara Charles) Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ Lines: 197 Approved: wtm@hnews.fidonet.org Fidonet: Split Index Number: 15705 TS> = Tim Smith WR> = Wayne Roorda TS>General Announcement to all Deaf people and supportors... WR>And I note, from another posting, that you have been accepted to attend WR>Gallaudet University this fall. WR>I for one, have hopes that you will be able to receive an education while WR>there. But, if continue in the vein of thought as you have posted with WR>your drivel regarding the problems in the school in Virginia Beach, I'm WR>afraid you will never get the education that you need. WR>You said... TS>(If you are against ASL then please BE QUIET!) WR>Substitute "French" for "ASL" in the above statement and please explain WR>what are you trying to say or ask of the SilentTalk readers? It was very clear to me. Those who do not support ASL, and there are many should please refrain from the discussion/conversation!!!!! TS>There is currently a GRAVE injustice being committed aganist the TS>Deaf Children in Virginia Beach, VA.... WR>Now, substitute "Minority" for "Deaf" in the above and please explain WR>what you are trying to say? As a minority, myself, I can understand this, but it has nothing to do with the issue. You brought up other issues. Please read what this person had to say. TS>... (We are being SCREWED!) WR>Are you? Where is your supporting statement(s), for such a generalization? TS>Who by? The HEARIES that THINK they know what the best is TS>for deaf children! WR>Who are these "HEARIES"? This is a Deaf slang term used to refer to WR>people who hear. Please name names and explain further. Hearies are people who can hear. "WE are being screwed" are deaf people. TS>... they have openly stated that Deaf people don't TS>know what is best for deaf people. WR>Where was this stated? Is there a published source for the above WR>statement? I'd like to read it. This is the only thing good you had to say. It would be of interest to see where, in what and who stated the above. But, take it easy... TS>... So they need to decide what is best for them. Who are these "they" and "them" you are referring to? Again, "They and Them" are hearies! TS>...... text deleted TS> Now, this is a VERY serious case. Currently, the TS>interpreters in the Virginia Beach Public Schools are INCOMPETENT! TS>They come directly from the "streets"! This is NOT an.... WR>Uh Tim, you've lost me. By whose measurement are these interpreters WR>"INCOMPETENT"? And where are these "streets" that they are from? WR>How is this related to your thesis? Deaf people measure the incompetence or competence of interpreters. I would think that is clear, as they are the one receiving the service, and they are the client. An interpreter should be giving an available service to a Deaf person in order to facilitate communication between two groups of people - hearing and Deaf. If you had a lousy doctor and all the doctors in your area were lousy, you could make a statement, saying that they are incompetent. Unfortunately, interpreters to Deaf client ratio is ridiculous, meaning there are many, many more Deaf people than, we, as interpreters, can service. In NJ, there are some @ 100,000 Deaf people to some 30 interpreters and we are very lucky if out of those 30 or so, 10 are certified by RID (Registry for Interpreters for the Deaf.) Others includes people who had Deaf parents or people like myself, who attend Interpreter Programs wherever we can. Do you know anything about this organization? Do you know what certification is? The "streets" Tim refers to means just that. People who learned sign after taking maybe a 6-8 week sign course. Or maybe they learned it from their friends and now think they can interpret. Let me tell you something, I have been in a Interpreter program for 3 years now in NJ at Union County College and I have been frustrated beyond belief in trying to learn the language (ASL). It is not an overnight job. It takes years, and years, and years of practice, patience and experience to use ASL well and it takes longer to be a good interpreter. Interpreters off the "Streets" are not certified, don't have the education, don't follow the Code of Ethics (ensuring such things as confidentiality of the client) set by RID among many other infractions. Interpreters off the "streets" ARE usually incompetent. I don't thing NJ is as bad as Virginia Beach, but ... After 3 years I am still a "baby interpreter." I am just staring my internship after 3 years which involves 125 hours of interpreting before I can actually call myself an interpreter. Interpreters off the "streets" can see a quick way to make money at the expense of the Deaf client who is not getting the information they need correctly or clearly in a language that they understand (either English or ASL - we are trained in this an others, including Oral and Minimal Language Skills,etc). Suppose you get a client who is in a doctor's office, who is being told that they have cancer and the interpreter needs to relay the doctor's information to them - suppose the interpreter breaks down and starts to cry, suppose the interpreter does not know the vocabulary to explain the medical and hospital procedures that the client will have to go through for his/her therapy? Suppose the person's receptive skills are not good and they don't understand what the Deaf person is signing and suppose that Deaf person, with cancer, starts asking questions about his/her condition that the interpreter cannot explain to the doctor. Suppose a child in high school gets an interpreter who has only a basic knowledge of signs and is interpreting a a chemistry class, algebra class, history, geology, the list can go on and on. Those are interpreters "off the street." TS>.... text deleted TS> Now, a professional interpreter who is certified by the RID TS>recently met with the administrative head of Special Education TS>Department to bring up a proposal concerning the TS>Bi-lingual/bicultural aspects of educating the Deaf. She was met TS>with such disbelief. They are NOT interested in the Deaf TS>children's behalf. All they want is to meet the minimal .... WR>If you are really interested asking for help, you would have named names WR>and provided us with TDD numbers to call and addresses to write to verify WR>that the above situation is as you've described it. Not true. The Deaf community, and it is a community, is a close-knit community. Why should he mention names, when he may have to use one of those interpreters at some point in time, because there is no one else available or better interpreters available. Believe me when I say, if YOU, who criticize so greatly, were involved in the Deaf community at all, you would not ask these questions. You would understand. I hope I have explained some of it to you. Interpreters who really support the community are involved in the community and I mean 'REALLY' involved. We are at the Deaf clubs, workshops to improve skills and at every Deaf function out there to enhance our skills and the language. TS>..... text deleted TS>NOT! In fact, they are breaking the law! Deaf children, when they... WR>Well if "they are breaking the law" why hasn't the Virginia Department WR>of Education filed charges against those who are responsible? Have you WR>written to them stating your concerns? I'm sure the Ed Dept. know. As Tim stated, they are getting by on the minimal requirements of the law. Many businesses do this for whatever reasons, usually money. You need more than one person to write a letter. TS>..... text deleted TS> We want to do something.. NO, we MUST do something to stop TS>this crime! Deaf people KNOW what is best for the deaf people! TS>BUT we MUST be heard! WR>You may want to do something, but you will accomplish nothing without WR>supporting statments of facts and wittnesses affirming the allegations WR>which you have made. The witnesses can be brought forth later, if this particular issue is brought forth and something is done about it. I would not publically name people when I may have to rely on what available services there are. In NJ, if a interpreter is bad, his name gets passed around fairly quickly in the Deaf community and eventually that interpreter would not get alot of work. Deaf people are staring to stand up for their rights to equal access into buildings, seminars, etc. It has nothing to do with physically walking into the building, but equal access to all the facilities, hearing people have because we hear. We take our hearing for granted. Again the doctor analogy. If there were 2 doctors in your small community and both doctors were terrible doctors, but you still had to use them, would you openly name them in a public forum - if there is no one else available to you if you get sick? WR>I recognize that the world is imperfect. It can be made better IF we WR>all work together to improve it. >Wayne Nice words Wayne. But from you response, you would need to start with yourself first before criticizing others. We came across soooooo strong on something you obviously knew nothing about. I would change your quote above - It can be made better IF WE LEARN TO LISTEN FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS SECOND, CRITICIZE LESS, SPEAK GENTLY TO OBTAIN INFO and all work together to improve it!!!! Peace, Barbara Charles