Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!aero-c!nadel From: mlm@cs.brown.edu (Moises Lejter) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: "Woman" or "Girl"? Message-ID: Date: 14 May 91 07:14:26 GMT References: <1991May13.223727.8721@aero.org> Sender: uunet!brunix!news@ncar.UCAR.EDU Reply-To: mlm@cs.brown.edu Organization: Department of Computer Science, Brown University Lines: 46 Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Status: R Originator: nadel@aerospace.aero.org In article <1991May13.223727.8721@aero.org> NRILEY@BOOTES.UNM.EDU (Natalie Riley Osorio) writes: From: NRILEY@BOOTES.UNM.EDU (Natalie Riley Osorio) Date: 10 May 91 07:00:00 GMT [...] I admitted to him that at times I feel uncomfortable being called a "woman" (I'm 20) and also in calling other people my age "women" and "men" (although I do). Furthermore, I don't feel belittled by being called a "girl." To give a similar perspective on the question (backed by some foreign language info, again), I have a similar problem. I am a little uncomfortable calling myself or my peers "men" (we're 27, or thereabouts), but I would have no problem in calling an older man a "man". The same applies to women - I feel a little uncomfortable calling women my age "woman", but older women I will call a "woman" without second thoughts. The issue (at least for me) has to do with a certain association I have between the words "man" and "woman" and a certain amount of deference that goes along with them - I see the older people as deserving such deference, but I don't see people my age as deserving it (we're still too young...). The problem, as I see it, is that in English there is no word in common use that "fits" between "boy" and "man" (or "girl" and "woman"). A teenager is too old to be a boy/girl, but not old enough to be a man/woman. "Young man/woman" would probably do it, except that it's not a common phrase (though grandmothers use it all the time... :-) (and perhaps that's why)). In Spanish, there is a word "muchacho/muchacha" which means "young man/woman" (by and large). It is commonly used to refer to teenagers. They will get offended, however, if called "ni~no/ni~na" (boy/girl). I always thought it was *because* a better alternative was available - calling them "boys/girls" could only mean they were being belittled. Needless to say, I can picture circumstances in which "boy/girl" would be used in a clearly derogatory sense, and so would be demeaning. It's all a matter of figuring out what the speaker meant by them. Moises P.S> I'm rapidly approaching the point where I *would* call myself (and my peers) men/women. A scary thought... :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet/CSnet: mlm@cs.brown.edu BITNET: mlm@browncs.BITNET UUCP: ...!uunet!cs.brown.edu!mlm Phone: (401)863-7664 USmail: Moises Lejter, Box 1910 Brown University, Providence RI 02912