Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi!osc.edu!karl.kleinpaste
From: karl.kleinpaste@osc.edu
Subject: Re: compuserve
Message-ID: <1991May21.134514.10243@oar.net>
Followup-To: com-priv@psi.com
Sender: news@oar.net
Nntp-Posting-Host: ashley.osc.edu
Reply-To: com-priv@psi.com
Organization: Viento Gigabit Testbed, Ohio Supercomputer Center
References: <1991May21.001611.4942@spectrum.CMC.COM>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1991 14:44:10 GMT
Lines: 65

[This begins to encroach on territory that
 rightly belongs to com-priv@psi.com...]

lars@spectrum.cmc.com writes:
    - on the burning question: Why isn't Compu$erve on the Internet ?

Because they haven't got a clue? :-)

   If CompuServe were to hook up to a commercial IP network vendor, they
   would have done THEIR part of the deal.

Perhaps true.  But (picking an example out of the air here; no slurs
against corporate entities implied) when {HP,DEC,Sun,ATT <pick one>}
employees start accessing CompuServe's graphics forums for image
downloading via their NSFNet-affiliated network connection, who gets
the blame?  Past indications are that placement of materials which are
"unsuitable" to the Internet must be removed by the provider of the
materials; cf. complaints about certain GIF collections.  (Hm.  I
almost begin to wonder if there's a connection between CompuServe's
non-presence on the Internet and the fact that the GIF graphics format
is a CompuServe creation, specifically a guy by the name of Steve
Wilhite.  Nah, it's too improbable...)

   Academic users would be presumed to be using CIS fro academic purposes,

Would they?  The presumption in the cases of GIF collections seems to
be guilty-until-proven-innocent.  Not that this has stopped Usenet's
alt.sex.pictures from succeeding, of course.

   and if their use was not academic,
   they surely would not be doing it on NSFnet in the first place ?

I don't mean to offend, but that strikes me as naive.

Just for starters, it would be interesting to me to know how many
connections to CompuServe via...
	NSFNet -> Merit -> hermes.merit.edu -> Telenet -> CompuServe
are really legit.  I wonder about all kinds of things regarding that
access point; "appropriate use" stipulations notwithstanding, Telenet
and CompuServe both _must_ be making a handy profit, directly, by such
connections.  No fuzziness with "indirect" or "incidental" profit
here, just raw bitpipe connectivity, for a price.  I can't use it in
the first place, myself; my account at CompuServe is free for obvious
reasons, so they don't let me get in via Telenet.

   From: bill@tuatara.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
   Date: 21 May 91 11:59:31 GMT

   1. There are commercial INTERNET providers that Compuserve could hook up to.

They are doing so, for the mail gateway.  Alternet is the IP supplier.

   2. It is not Compuserve's responsibility to police the NSFnet.  It is
   up to the users to ensure that their traffic meets Acceptable Use Policy.

That's empirically disprovable, see above; the NSFNet would police CompuServe.

   But, I stand by what I said above, it isn't a technical problem.

Yes, you're entirely correct, it's a political problem.  That's why
this is really no longer an issue for tcp-ip, and hasn't been for at
least the last 3 or 4 notes in the thread; note Reply-To: and
Followup-To: (the latter will confuse your news interface, no doubt).

--karl