Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!jeffe
From: jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (george)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Info on MathWriter 2.0
Message-ID: <43636@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: 22 May 91 19:07:58 GMT
References: <0E010025.dhbxgc@tidbits.UUCP>
Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu
Reply-To: george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Mechanical Engineering
Lines: 169
Nntp-Posting-Host: eniac.seas.upenn.edu



I have assumed the task of evaluating Mathwriter 2, with
the thought of having our group switch from our current
'system' of MS Word using Mathtype as well as native word formulas
to create equations.  I've been playing with the full 'pro' version
on a IIci as well as on a 4Mb SE.

Before giving it a big thumbs down, I thought I'd seek some net opinions.

I hope Adam doesn't mind too much If I quote him out of order..

]As a disclaimer, please note that I have no connection with the
]company or the program other than I know the programmer slightly. I
]can't really answer questions about MathWriter either, since I don't
]                                                           ^^^^^^^^^
]use it and I don't do equations, so I can't really compare it to
]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
]other products. Contact Brooks/Cole if you have more questions...
]
]cheers .... Adam Engst, TidBITS Editor

...

](this information is taken from the blurb from Brooks/Cole and the
]demo I saw a while back):

Fair enough, but that makes your review as good as reading the back of the
box.  (still better that a MacUser review though..)

]It is a full fledged word processor with a feature set to rival
]Nisus and Word (although Nisus's features are usually quite different
]- Word's aren't).

Ease of transition / coexistance with Word is very important for most of the group,
though if MW is really better I presonally am willing to work at it.

]Some of the features that you might like include

]- automatic numbering of equations, tables, figures, etc.

drool.

]- user styles

double drool.
these are "character styles".  You can define a style to be say subscript-symbol
and later make global changes in the spirit of Word's paragraph styles

theses two features alone are _almost_ worth switching for.

]- text-based mathematical equations that are fully editable (so you
]don't have to exit to another program to edit them) (mega-cool)

I found the equation editing to be far from intuitive, but I have no doubt that
it works well once mastered.
However, I was suprised to see that the ouput quality is, at best, no better than
what we get with our current setup.  From what I'd heard I was expecting Tex-like quality,
and this ain't.

]- Find/Replace for mathematical expressions

Find replace is, well, way cool.  You can search for various combinations
of styles as well as old fasioned text.

]- automatic revision control for editing purposes (this is snazzy!)
]- a library for storing repeated bits of text, equations, or pictures
]- excellent table-making abilities
]- a science/math/engineering supplemental dictionary
]- on-screen line numbering
]- hidden memos within text
]- ability to view pages in different scales

nice extras

]- Thesaurus and Hyphenation
]- online help
]- spelling checker
]- ability to print to the ImageWriter, LaserWriters, or any higher
]resolution PostScript device without file modification
]- ability to handle PostScript, bitmapped, and object graphics

you may find these things exciting if you are migrating from say PC WordPerfect  :-)

]- on-screen editing of multiple columns
]- text and graphics sidebars

Word4 does these things much much better.

]- automatic line spacing for two-dimensional equations

what does this mean? Whats a two-dimensional equation ?

]- ability to import RTF documents (so you can just throw out Word)

the RTF filter interprets Word formulas ( way cool ), but for some reason chooses to
ignore the \d ( displace ) operator.  This is as far as I am concerned much better than
nothing ( considering that there are about four Word users out there who use formulas.. )

]As far as the details go, there is an "educational version" which is
]somewhat stripped down but will run better on slower machines (i.e.,
]less than an LC) with less than 2 MB of RAM, which is the requirement
]for the "professional version."

The education version is way stripped down.  Ask for an explination before you buy.
Some features of the full version can be 'removed' by removing files from the mathwriter
folder ( such as the RTF module ),but it was not clear to me if I could
'make' an edu version by removing the apropriate files ( for testing purposes ).

I tested the full version ( all files installed ) on a 4 Mb SE ( uni-Finder sys 6.07)
using a 25 page document which I converted from Word ( did the conversion on my ci ).
Double click on the file, go get a cup of coffe, still opening.  Watch some TV. Still opening.
Finally opens the file.  Try to scroll to page 2.  Look a watch cursor for a few minutes.
Go watch some more tv.  Come back to see machine crash.

BTW I created that document with Word/MathtypeDa on a 1Mb SE.

This alone wouldn't bother me too much, since we mostly have more powerful machines.

]A friend who beta tested MathWriter at Cornell said that it was
]worlds better than creating equations in one of the other programs
]and pasting them into Word, which is an awfully clumsy solution to
]the problem.

Agreed, the current system is clumsy.  On the other hand it seems futile ( and un mac like )
to create a whole new word processor just to address a couple of short comings.  Anyone
care to speculate on how Sys7 and interapplication communication, will impact this market?

]I was extremely impressed by the general word processing power (I do a lot
]of that) and the excellent interface.

This brings me to my biggest problem.  To consider switching, Mathwriter would need
to be a word processor at least on par with Word.  On the surface it has many many
features which make it better, however there is one thing missing. -- paragraph styles.
Mathwriter uses this archaic MacWrite-1986ish new-ruler-for-each-paragraph-change system.
It seems to me we could acomplish much of Words style sheet functionality
using character styles, but not everything.  If anyone is using Mathwriter, and thinks
I'm being silly, I am certainly willing to listen.

Finally, I discovered one bug.  Equations print poorly with "fractional widths" on,
while regular text looks really bad ( were talking words on top of each other ) with
fractional widths off.  Someone from Microsoft must have written that part of the code.
This is based on printing a MW supplied demo document to a LaserWriter, with Adobe
screen fonts ( and the MW supplied Symbol screen font ) installed.

-Patiently waiting for MW 3
george jefferson
george@mech.seas.upenn.edu



















--
-george            george@mech.seas.upenn.edu