Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!sun-barr!newstop!sun!amdcad!amdcad!military From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Vulnerability of modern fighters Message-ID: <1991May20.052447.22211@amd.com> Date: 18 May 91 22:10:28 GMT References: <1991May15.060829.3052@amd.com> <1991May16.052804.17718@amd.com> <1991May17.063036.1080@amd.com> Sender: military@amd.com Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Lines: 35 Approved: military@amd.com From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >From: Chris Kaiser >> 80%+ of all victims of air combat never even see the attacker, much less >> have a chance to maneuver against him. > >This statistic must be largely based on the WW1 and WW2 situation, presumably >the introduction of sophisticated radar carrying fighters is changing this, No, it hasn't. Fighters don't have 360-degree radar coverage, and for obvious reasons most surprise attacks are from behind. That percentage remained valid in Korea and Vietnam and I know of no recent results that seriously differ. Aside from lack of 360-degree coverage, note that a fighter might not use its radar all the time. A radar detector is much cheaper than a radar and has a greater effective range to boot, so using radar advertises your presence very widely. Missiles that home on radar are cheap compared to other medium/long-range missiles, and can be devastatingly accurate and effective. The classic example is the USS Worden, crippled off Vietnam by a single hit from a small US (!) anti-radar missile that homed on it by mistake. In fairness, nobody is yet known to have fielded an air-to-air anti-radar missile that I'm aware of. There *is* a considerable risk of tipping off the guy *you're* sneaking up on if you use your radar, though. You should also remember that seeing and identifying are two different things. In the sort of nightmare confusion you would expect in a major two-sided air battle (Iraq doesn't count :-)), it would be all too easy to be surprised by an attack even though you could, in principle, have seen it coming. -- And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology "beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry