Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!bagate!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jhaynes@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Re: UNBELIEVABLE GRACE Message-ID: Date: 18 May 91 06:08:59 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 82 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes: > What do you think of Acts 19:6, wherein the men were baptized in the > Holy Ghost, after they were baptized in water? What do you think of > the men in Cornelius household, who were baptized in the Holy Ghost > before they were baptized with water? What do you think of the > Samaritans who were baptized with the Holy Ghost not when they were > baptized with water at the preaching of Philip, but rather, when the > apostles layed hands on them sometime later? Make interesting discussion about what went on in the Chapters of Acts. Remembering that the book is title the Acts of the Apostles. I first want to say I don't think I have all the answers but I am willing to share what I believe the truth is about scriptures I have studies. When I am wrong I know that God will bring to mind the wrong and make it right. Ok, with the disclaimer out of the way let's talk. First from my understanding what is shared in Acts about the speaking in tongues a sign for unbelievers so they could hear the wonders of God in their OWN LANGUAGE. 1 Cor 14:22, Acts 2:11 Second the gifts the signs, wonders, and miracles were to confirm the message of the apostles: Mark 16:20 "Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, AND THE LORD WORKED WITH THEM AND CONFIRMED HIS WORD BY THE SIGNS THAT ACCOMPANIED."(NIV) Hebrews 2:4 "God also testified to it (great salvation) by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit DISTRIBUTED ACCORDING TO HIS WILL." (NIV) Acts reveals the fulfillment of the Lord confirming the word by the signs that accompanied. Any of the areas in Acts that you point out you see that the word is confirmed by the miracles or the gift of speaking in tongues. You ask about Philip well I would step back from Acts 8 to Acts 6 to get a understanding of where philip joined the apostles ministry along with six others. Please read Acts 6 and note that the men they appointed to wait on tables were known to be full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. Then they joint in the ministry of the apostles and preformed signs wonders and miracles. I believe the apostles showed up on the scheme in Acts 8 to confirm the message Philip was preaching. With this thought in mind the Holy Spirit had already been received by thoughts who were baptized. Think about it if you only receive the Holy Spirit from the laying on of the apostles hand then you and I and everyone else who call on his name don't have a chances for heaven. The spirit is given as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance those who have it go to heaven those who don't, don't. 1 John 5:11-12, Eph 1:14, John 14:26 John 17:11 > It is my understanding that the crowd that Peter was adressing would > be embracing the gospel when they were baptized. The people were > observing the signs that accompanied the gift (donea- makes and > interesting word study in acts) of the Holy Spirit. I think Peter was > trying to say that after they were baptized, they could have the gift > of the Holy Spirit. I don't see water baptism and baptism as > intertwined as other people do. Cornelius was baptized after he > recieved it. Others were baptized after. Link Hudson I believe the gift of salvation is promise in baptism, Holy Comunion, and calling on the name of the Lord. 1 John 5:7-8 "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."(NIV) call on the name of the Lord= Spirit baptism= water Holy Comunion= blood 1 Spirit Luke 11:13; Acts 2:21; Rom 10:13 2 Water Matt 28:19-20; Acts 2:38-39 3 Blood John 6:43-58; All accounts of the last supper look and see what who didn't partake. I see the grace of God different than when I first believed I don't believe I have a full understand of it but when I wrote unbelievable Grace I was shock to see the response of the Lord on Judgment Day Matt 25:31-46 nothing was said about oh you were baptized or partook of the Lord's Supper or anything like that it was the living Spirit of God in them that they did what they did for one of the least of Jesus' brothers. I hope I answered your questions but if not we can and I would enjoy talking more about this. In His Hands, Joel Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."(NIV)