Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!samsung!news.cs.indiana.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sexuality, morality and the church Message-ID: Date: 19 May 91 03:04:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 49 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I disagree with the "posit"ion that Jesus would not condone Paul's stance on excluding certain members for sexual immorality. 1. Jesus associated with sinners. Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors. One time he even stopped the stoning of a woman who had been caught in the very act of adultery (but for some reason, the guilty man was not with her, as he should have been.) Notice his words to her. "Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more." Jesus forgave her sin. At one time, he said to the Pharisees that they that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. Jesus was a phisician to the spiritually sick tax collectors and prostitutes. But notice that Jesus harsh words were to the Pharisees, who were supposed to be the people of God, but were filled with unrighteousness. They did not keep their own burdensome laws that they put on others. They loved to recieve the honor of men, but did not care as much about what God thought. Jesus called many of them hypocrites. In the same way, Paul was harsh on those who claimed to know the truth, but lived in sin. Look at I Corinthians 5:9-10, "I wrote to you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters: for then we must needs go out of the world." In other words we can eat with sinners, just as Jesus did! Yet the next verse says that if a man claims to be a brother and does these things, we should not keep company with him, or even eat with him. Look at Matthew 18:15-17. I know that it applies specifically to when one sins against another, but we can make application to this situation. If one sins agaisnt us, we are to go to him and tell him. If he listens, we have gained a brother. If he will not, then we are to take one or two more with us, so that every word maybe established. If he will still not listen, then finally we take him before the church. If he will not listen, then we are to treat him as a heathen and a publican. back then, when the disciples were still ruled by the Pharisees, they were taught that they were not to eat with the heathen and tax collectors (as we see formt he Pharisees words to Jesus in the passage I previously refered to.) The disciples were told not to associate with the man. Of course, after the ressurection, it was revealed that it was okay to associate with heathens (Gentiles) and the disciples had the example of Jesus in witnessing to sinners. I think that Jesus and Paul were in perfect agreement. Associate with sinners, but not it they claim to be Christians and will not hear the truth. Maybe we can get into a discussion about dust-shaking if we stay on this topic. Link Hudson