Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!cs.uoregon.edu!ogicse!qiclab!nosun!techbook!waynekn From: waynekn@techbook.com (Wayne Knapp) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics Subject: Re: JMan Review: RENDER & Conclusion Message-ID: <1991May23.054004.19121@techbook.com> Date: 23 May 91 05:40:04 GMT References: <1991May18.001642.11147@crash.cts.com> <192b5f2f.ARN0fef@cbmami.UUCP> Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix Lines: 94 In comp.sys.amiga.graphics you write: > One thing that really scares me about Jman is Hash's total refusal >to sell his product via dealers! I work for an upscale dealer in Southern >California which specializes in Video/Animation. Our staff is well versed >in Lightwave, Imagine, and 3D-Pro, as well as many of the older packages. >We demo the products on proffesional systems (A3000's, 33 Mhz and 50 Mhz >A2000's, etc..), all are systems are networked we can even do renderings in >3D-Pro in its paralell processing mode! Finnal output can be viewed in >24-bit via Firecracker, Toaster, DCTV, etc... There are many reasons for this: * Most dealers want a 40% - 60% price discount. Distributors often require a 60% discount, then mark up the price 10% and sell to dealers. Hence, the street price of Jman would be pushed up to at least $1000 if we went through the normal channels. However, if you were to talk to Martin, you could work out some kind of deal. I'm sure you could buy the program for $500. The problem is that you don't want to pay $500 for the program. That is the price. We don't give direct customers a different deal than dealers. If you can sell Jman for $1000 that would be fine with us, however, our price is $500. * We use personalized copy protection. This is the least offensive type of copy protection. It also allows us to know who has what code. Hence we can update people. * Jman is a well supported product, we do that by talking directly with our customers. Also since all sales are currently direct, we get our customers the best possible version of Jman. There are no time lags in the system, except if they exist at our end. * By selling direct, we can sell for much less to the end user and we don't have a lot of the ups and downs of dealing indirectly. Sales do come slower, but we never get returns. We are in this business for the long term. We are more interested in building the best animation tools and using them to do animation than making fast bucks. * We are putting all of our resouces into: - Improving the product - Support our customers * Jman is a complete system. Over time is will grow into even a better program. We want to be the best animation system. If as some time that means only selling direct at $5000, then that is what will happen. However, the current price of Jman 1.3 is $500 direct. (This is for new customers, updates and upgrades are much cheaper.) > It seems to me that Martin is doing a diservice to his product and >his end-users (both current and future). Would you rather purchase a $500 >package after getting a hands on demo from someone who really knows the >products and is farmiliar with its strengths and weaknesess relative to the >other products available? In fact unless someone has 1000's of hours to invest, he won't be able to do a good of comparing products. That is why we talk directly with customers. We know our strengths, and are more aware of our weaknesess than anyone else. Plus, we are the only people that really know what is current in the code. Again, Jman is product that is being worked on daily. There have been over 3 major revisions alone this year, and several more minor revisions. We are using our own tools to do real animation. As we do the the tools get better. > Perhaps they don't want their ray-tracing engine >compared side-by-side to Imagines... If they insist on only selling direct >then they will have a much smaller user base, that means that bug reports >will take longer to get back to them, that means there are fewer people for >owners to share ideas/help/objects with, etc... Right, we don't want frames compared, we want our animation compared to other animation. In fact our ray-tracing is getting better all the time. In fact very good in 1.3. BUT, WE ARE NOT A RAY-TRACING COMPANY, WE ARE AN ANIMATION COMPANY. If you want to ray-trace a ball or two and compare them, our product is not being used for what it was designed to do. Compare a couple minutes of animation. That is where Jman shines. > If you are a Hash customer, you should let them know how you feel >about this policy. Please do! In fact talk to Martin Hash himself if you like, hope you buy Jman too! Call ... (206) 573-9427 However, please don't be mad at us because we sell the product for the same price to everyone! Wayne Knapp -- waynekn@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!waynekn Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks