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From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Book Review: Against Our Will
Summary: Benefit is in the eye of the observer.
Message-ID: <20120@cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 22 May 91 17:06:35 GMT
References: <1991May15.144955.22072@aero.org> <7906@alvin.mcnc.org>
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Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
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In article <7906@alvin.mcnc.org> ge@mcnc.org.UUCP (George Entenman) writes:
> ... In my opinion, the point she [Brownmiller] is making is
> *not* that all men are rapists, but that all men *benefit*
> from the actions of rapists.

It would be more accurate to say that those who enjoy the
attitudes fostered by prevalent rape benefit from it, even if
they would never commit it.  But this does *not* include all men,
nor does it exclude all women.

> ... I submit that we all *benefit* from rape, whether we wish
> to or not.  We have no more choice in the matter than those of
> us who are white benefit from living in a racist world.
>
> It's not hard to imagine how we "nice guys" benefit.  Women
> need us to escort them at night or in dangerous areas. ... We
> get to post understanding articles to this newsgroup and to
> feel accepted and needed by women.  And many men benefit from
> having wives and girlfriends who are not free to move about at
> night, for example.

What the above analysis misses is that some men (and not all
women) view the above social aspects of rape as detriments,
rather than benefits.  *Some* men may like the fact that their
wives' and women friends' freedom of movement is constrained as
described above, but others of us dislike this.  Indeed, I
suspect that one reason many of my activities take place in
mostly male enclaves, to my dismay, is precisely the social
inhibitions on women, which are enforced in many more ways than
rape. 

A similar point can be made with regard to Mr Entenman's comments
on racial discrimination.  Whatever comparative advantage I enjoy
through this, I believe that we would all be better off if
everyone could better exploit their abilities in the economic
realm.  In this, I include both blacks from poor inner cities in
America, and also those of all races who live in less developed
countries.  (It never ceases to amaze me that some who go to
every extreme to help the former also go to extremes to maintain
comparative advantage for ourselves over the latter.)

Russell