Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!haven.umd.edu!mimsy!nocusuhs!nmrdc1!minixug!ukmug!jonathan
From: jonathan@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org (Jonathan Allen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: AM cdiff's (again)
Keywords: advanced minix mugnet PH
Message-ID: <910527186@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org>
Date: 27 May 91 10:40:46 GMT
Organization: MINIX User Group UK (UKMUG)  -- MUGNET-UK --
Lines: 57

From: mitchell@MDI.COM (Bill Mitchell)
> 1.  CRC of the file to be patched.
>     Don't patch it unless the CRCs match
>     User must have an exact copy of the file-to-be-patched.

No, this is no good.  If I have implemented some nifty change of my own,
then I can't spool in the changes without pulling all of my stuff out,
then putting it back in again afterwards.  Given the size of AM's
modifications I hardly think that this would be an attractive proposal.

> 2.  list of ranges of lines to be deleted from the original file
>     something like "1,4,7-96,112"
>     this would include all lines which the changes either delete or modify

See above - if my changes (even to the comments) change the line numbers
then stuff gets blown away.

> Seems this file ought to be free of copyrighted information
> from the original file.

Why is this desirable?  Has Andy been sued over and over by PH for
distributing cdiff's now, atlhough they contain PH's copyrighted
code fragments ... not to mention all the others who do.  In this
batch of news, for example, what about Klamer's !# modification to
MM - that includes MM code fragments as part of the posted cdiff.

> Seems it shouldn't be too tough to implement a program to convert
> diffs and cdiffs into this format, and to write a program to use
> patch information in this format to patch files.

Oh no, not another set of formats and conversion programs.

It seems to me, IMHO, that the basic problem stems from the fact that
PH are a book publisher and not a software company.  If they were the
right sort of business, they would be doing things the right way.
IAC, copyrights and patent rights and trademarks and so on are a
question of barter - based on the perceived value of what the original,
the derivative and the enhancement are, negotiated between the parties
involved.

AFAIK, the real concern at PH is actually that they know that AM is
BETTER (in some ways) than 'standard' MINIX, and if it were commonly
available their sales (and hence profit) would slip.  They don't want
their product to become a 'second class' item.  What they don't
appreciate is that just about everyone runs some patches on vanilla
MINIX (mine wouldn't fly without the PC shared text patches, for example)
and that these have been collected together by NL-MUG (and others) to
make into kits.

I had a discussion of some length with our local PH representative
on the question of upgrades.  I have a customer who wants to upgrade
1.1 to 1.5, and buy the manuals.  PH want to sell him the full 1.5
as they don't recognise 1.1 --> 1.5 as a valid upgrade, and there is
(of course) no boot disc for 1.3 to prove ownership, since the chap
is already running 1.3, having done the upgrades off the net.  What
would you do ?

Jonathan