Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!helios!inetg1!dprrhb
From: dprrhb@inetg1.ARCO.COM (Reginald H. Beardsley)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: AM cdiff's (flame)
Keywords: flame
Message-ID: <1991May30.140729.15683@Arco.COM>
Date: 30 May 91 14:07:29 GMT
References: <910527186@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org>
Sender: dprrhb@inetg1 (Reginald H. Beardsley)
Organization: ARCO Oil & Gas Company
Lines: 72

In article <910527186@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org>, jonathan@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org
(Jonathan Allen) writes:

[ text deleted]
> 
> 
> It seems to me, IMHO, that the basic problem stems from the fact that
> PH are a book publisher and not a software company.  If they were the
> right sort of business, they would be doing things the right way.
> IAC, copyrights and patent rights and trademarks and so on are a
> question of barter - based on the perceived value of what the original,
> the derivative and the enhancement are, negotiated between the parties
> involved.

You're quite correct. If PH were not a book publisher the problem wouldn't
exist. There would be NO source code available.
 

> 
> AFAIK, the real concern at PH is actually that they know that AM is
> BETTER (in some ways) than 'standard' MINIX, and if it were commonly
> available their sales (and hence profit) would slip.  They don't want
> their product to become a 'second class' item.  What they don't
> appreciate is that just about everyone runs some patches on vanilla
> MINIX (mine wouldn't fly without the PC shared text patches, for
> example)
> and that these have been collected together by NL-MUG (and others) to
> make into kits.

Better than PH's distribution? For what?  Andy put a LOT of work into
creating Minix in the first place.  What goes (or does not go) into PH 
is his call.  What goes into your system is your call.  However, the
carping 
above is bad manners.  You should apologize.

> I had a discussion of some length with our local PH representative
> on the question of upgrades.  I have a customer who wants to upgrade
> 1.1 to 1.5, and buy the manuals.  PH want to sell him the full 1.5
> as they don't recognise 1.1 --> 1.5 as a valid upgrade, and there is
> (of course) no boot disc for 1.3 to prove ownership, since the chap
> is already running 1.3, having done the upgrades off the net.  What
> would you do ?

Pay PH the measly $169 for the regular distribution.  Will Borland let you
upgrade for free from the net? Microsoft? ANYONE ELSE?  Will they let you
have the source?

Andy worked for several years to create Minix in the first place.  He went
to the trouble of distributing it through a book publisher.   Show me a
SINGLE software vendor selling a comparable product for a better price or
with more generous terms.  Fred has the problems he deserves (as we all
do).
If you don't like PH's policy don't use Minix.  Coherent is similar, sold
by 
a software vendor, doesn't provide source, doesn't provide upgrades over 
the net,  and is cheaper than Minix.  What more do you want?

Sorry, folks, but the carping about PH really gets to me some days.  I buy
a lot of books from them.  They do a very good job of editing and
publishing. 
Their marketing of Minix could be a bit more aggressive, but they don't 
think in terms of adding in the cost of hundreds of full page ads to each
of their products.  Why do people spend thousands of dollars for hardware 
and then balk at the price of a book? Sigh....


-- 
Reginald H. Beardsley       
ARCO Information Services
Plano, TX 75075           
Phone: (214)-754-6785
Internet: dprrhb@arco.com