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From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: AM cdiff's (flame)
Message-ID: <1991May30.185417.27756@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
Keywords: flame
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Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Organization: Columbia University
References: <910527186@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org> <1991May30.140729.15683@Arco.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1991 18:54:17 GMT

In article <1991May30.140729.15683@Arco.COM> dprrhb@inetg1.ARCO.COM (Reginald H. Beardsley) writes:
>In article <910527186@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org>, jonathan@ukmug.uk.mugnet.org
>(Jonathan Allen) writes:
>
>[ text deleted]
>> 
>> 
>> It seems to me, IMHO, that the basic problem stems from the fact that
>> PH are a book publisher and not a software company.  If they were the
>> right sort of business, they would be doing things the right way.
>> IAC, copyrights and patent rights and trademarks and so on are a
>> question of barter - based on the perceived value of what the original,
>> the derivative and the enhancement are, negotiated between the parties
>> involved.
>
>You're quite correct. If PH were not a book publisher the problem wouldn't
>exist. There would be NO source code available.
> 
>
	This is in no way meant as disrespect towards MINIX or
its creator, but this is NOT the same as a product such as Unix,
Finder, AmigaDOS, OS/9, etc. This is code MEANT to be used
primarily in an educational environment to teach the principles
of writing an operating system.
	One of the main selling points of Tannenbaum's book is
that it includes the MINIX source and discusses it. If they
didn't reveal the source, IMNSHO, the book would be just another
of the many books on operating systems and they'd make
practically no money. Instead, BECAUSE the source is public, it
is a popular book.

	Now consider my position. At Columbia, you can get the
MS-DOS and Mac versions for FREE because this is for educational
purposes. Meanwhile, I can't get a version for my Amiga, since
Columbia doesn't support us in any way, unless I pay prentice
hall $169. This is for a product that is redistributable for
educational purposes. This isn't going to make them money.
Certainly not from me at least. Instead, it means that, instead
of doing work from my room on my machine, I have to go to some
silly computer lab and work on PS/2s. Joy.

>Pay PH the measly $169 for the regular distribution.  Will Borland let you
>upgrade for free from the net? Microsoft? ANYONE ELSE?  Will they let you
>have the source?
>
	Sorry, I'm a college student. $169 is NOT measly.
Especially for something which I'll be using for one semester,
and considering the fact that I'm not paying for the source, I'm
paying for an Amigatized version of that source which has been
compiled.
	And, as an example of companies that DO give free
upgrades, there is Apple and Commodore. Apple IS giving free
upgrades, and from the net. Commodore is giving free upgrades to
the new version of the OS to anyone who bought a machine after
April 15 of last year.

>Andy worked for several years to create Minix in the first place.  He went
>to the trouble of distributing it through a book publisher.   Show me a
>SINGLE software vendor selling a comparable product for a better price or
>with more generous terms.  Fred has the problems he deserves (as we all
>do).
>If you don't like PH's policy don't use Minix.  Coherent is similar, sold
>by 
>a software vendor, doesn't provide source, doesn't provide upgrades over 
>the net,  and is cheaper than Minix.  What more do you want?
>
	Ah, that's where you are wrong. If Coherent doesn't
include source, it ISN'T similar. What Minix's main selling point
is is that it comes with source. It is used in university after
university for that very reason. In fact, I don't know of any
similar products, and perhaps that is part of the problem: no
competition.
	Just one question: how many copies of Tannenbaum's book
are sold each year? How many would be sold if it weren't for the
Minix included with it?

Now the world has gone to bed,		Now I lay me down to sleep,
Darkness won't engulf my head,		Try to count electric sheep,
I can see by infrared,			Sweet dream wishes you can keep,
How I hate the night.			How I hate the night.   -- Marvin