Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!eastapps!hinode!geoff From: geoff@hinode.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc Subject: Re: LAN MANAGER Questions. Message-ID: <6446@eastapps.East.Sun.COM> Date: 30 May 91 13:42:04 GMT References: <29.May.91.20:49:08.A106FA@UK.AC.SALF.C> Sender: news@East.Sun.COM Reply-To: geoff@east.sun.com (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) Organization: Sun Microsystems PC-NFS Engineering Lines: 108 Quoth R.J.Letts@sysc.salford.ac.uk (in <29.May.91.20:49:08.A106FA@UK.AC.SALF.C>): #> I'm curious. The original poster on this claimed that PCSA and PC/NFS #> aren't "True LAN" implementations. #Not Suitable for serving PC's would have been better # #> What are the characteristics of a network client/server/peer architecture #> that you believe make it a "True" LAN implementation? # #1. Fileserver efficiency. # Use of PC-NFS on a non-dedicated server is asking for trouble; a heavy #user of the system will cause DOS clients to time-out producing error messages #on the clients - not very good. Good grief, what are you using as a server? I can run for days at a time accessing a system that is serving dozens of Suns and PC and is also running OpenLook (talk about a cycle stealer) without any significant level of retransmissions. Furthermore if it's really a problem you can always configure the number of retries before an error is reported - setting it to 0 (infinite) means I can rebuild all of PC-NFS overnight and not worry if somebody takes down the server for backup. #2. Workstation efficiency # Use of PC-NFS or PCSA requires VAST amounts of memory; it may not be a #problem if you high-load the device drivers, but this isn't much use on an #IBM XT with 640k of memory I believe that PCSA is on the bloated side, but PC-NFS has always been around 80K, which is right in the middle of the field when it comes to size. # #3. Security #Novell offers you a much richer access rights scheme than NFS - #Read #write #Create [New files/directories] #Open [existing files] #Search [directories] #Execute-Only ???? How is this different from and Unix server??? #In addition rights can be set by user and group, not # The Owner # His/Her group # Everyone else Yes, we all know Unix needs ACLs. One day. #Also PC-NFS is stateless, so if you reboot the server users don't #necessarily loose their connection - not very good if you are trying to get #rid of a hacker from your system. PC hardware is often more reliable than #mini-computer hardware (None on my Novell fileservers have crashed over the #past year, I have lost one SUN CPU board, and more pieces of the PRIME's #than I care to remember) Most people regard the statelessness as a rather useful attribute, as I noted above. If you need to eject a hacker, there are more issues than simply rebooting the server, and more solutions too. (Hint: try "man fsirand".) # 5. Price/Performance #compare the cost of a pc-based fileserver with the cost of a PC-NFS or #PCSA fileserver. Hmmm. I'll bite. Here's a sample configuration for a server and software for 10 client PC's: SPARCstation SLC 4/20FM-8 List $4,995 - 12 MIPS - 8 MB RAM - Mono - Diskless File server option X2001Z $9,600 - 669MB disk - 2.3Gbyte 8mm tape - 644Mbyte CD ROM drive SunOS on CD-ROM SX-21 $ 300 PC-NFS Documentation $ 75 PC-NFS RTU, media, no doc at 5-24 discount $ 245 x 10 = $2,450 Total: $17,420 I could get it cheaper using a 486 clone with a clone SVR4, but performance would probably be inadequate. Can someone give me the equivalent for a name-brand NetWare server system. Don't forget to include all software, the mouse, tape, CD, etc. #------------------------------------- #Basically I think TCP/IP is NOT good for fileserving, but is good for #other things : # Electronic Mail (POP, SMTP etc) # Remote Login (Telent, though I prefer X.29 as this is Uk.Ac) The problem here is the confusion and manageability of maintaining multiple name spaces, administration spaces, routing structures, etc. Suppose (hypothetically) that I run NetWare on my PC for file access and TCP-based stuff for the rest. Oops - we use Unix boxes as routers, and they won't route IPX, so now I'm limited to my local LAN for file sharing. What's my PC's name? Is it the same in the TCP/IP and NetWare worlds? There's a printer on another PC I want to use, which name should I use? Which stack? Management wants to manage the net with SNMP. How does NetWare fit in here? And so on. -- Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Microsystems. (geoff@East.Sun.COM) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Sun Microsystems PC Distributed Systems ... -- -- ... soon to be a part of SunTech (stay tuned for details) --