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From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (George X. Kambic, Allen-Bradley Inc.)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: bridge building and discipline
Message-ID: <4707.284370a9@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
Date: 29 May 91 14:13:13 GMT
References: <24527@unix.SRI.COM>
Distribution: na
Lines: 32

In article <24527@unix.SRI.COM>, hlavaty@CRVAX.Sri.Com writes:
> In article <4563.282e83ea@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (George X. Kambic, Allen-Bradley Inc.) writes...
>>In article <1991May9.053311.800@netcom.COM>, jls@netcom.COM (Jim Showalter) writes:
>>[...]
[...]
> 
> Try reading "Controlling Software Projects" by Tom DeMarco and Tim Lister.  They
> propose a system where the metrics person is NOT the management chain - in fact,
> it is forbidden for the metrics person to EVER reveal a specific name to a 
> management person.  The reason is exactly as you describe - once anyone got
> burned because of the metric data, the accuracy of all subsequent data is shot.
> Of course, getting management to swallow this is the hard part...:=)  However,
> if they do, at least they get metrics data that shows them more than they would
> without it.  
I know what you mean.  This is a good approach, in fact very much like the 
position I am in right now, and I understand the "sales" problem.  I think that 
I am raising discussions on this point because management won't accept the
Humphrey viewpoint blindly, not if they have any good management sense. 

> In practice, I'll bet the metrics person has to be a very smooth talker! :=)
I'm probably the counterexample.
> By the way, I don't see this as really relevant to the original point of 
> imposing basic software engineering principles or HOLs that have been proven
> successfull by others.   Collecting individual metrics is a much bigger step
> fraught with a lot more problems, such as the ones you describe.
Applying anything someone else has done is impossible, because we're
"different".  Even "top" level metrics have ramifications for groups that cause
concerns in those groups.  No one wants to be associated with the "failed"
project.

GXKambic
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