Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!apple!netcomsv!jkatz From: jkatz@netcom.COM (Joseph Katz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system Subject: MacinTalk Keywords: MacinTalk Message-ID: <1991May29.085135.12717@netcom.COM> Date: 29 May 91 08:51:35 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services UNIX System {408 241-9760 guest} Lines: 99 Recently, Rick Holzgrafe posted an article regarding the status (past and future) of MacinTalk. There were several incorrect and/or misleading comments made which I would like to address. In response to what Rick Holzgrafe writes: >MacinTalk was done by an outside firm, TRUE. MacinTalk was written by myself and Mark Barton. Apple contacted us back in late 1983 to write a speech synthesizer for the yet to be released Mac. >and Apple purchased the program so the Mac could have an extra splashy >intro in 1984: it could introduce itself. FALSE. Originally, MacinTalk was supposed to be included in the system folder and bundled with every Mac as part of the basic OS. Apple did indeed want at least a preliminary version working for the 1984 intro, and we busted our butts to provide them with one. Later (about June of '85) Apple decided that they would not necessarily distribute MacinTalk with every system. >We never purchased the source code. TRUE. During out initial contract negotiations, Apple was given various options regarding exclusivity, licensing arrangements, etc. They chose to purchase binary code only. >That's why we can't upgrade it to work with new System software: we're as >helpless as you are. FALSE. Over the years I've been in contact with various people at Apple and have tried several times to setup some arrangement to upgrade and maintain MacinTalk. Always, after some initial interest, the matter simply dies. >(It was patched the hard way once, to get rid of some self-modifying code >that failed on 68020's and 030's, Yes, MacinTalk was patched. No, MacinTalk has no self-modifying code. It would be more correct to say that MacinTalk did not maintain a pure code space (we stored a variable in a local area within a code module). When the Mac II was being developed we tried to negotiate with Apple to maintain and improve MacinTalk, but could not agree on terms. See below. >but its current problems are much more fundamental.) All too true. Originally the sound manager was much too slow to use and we had to directly access the hardware. THIS WAS DONE WITH APPLE'S PRIOR KNOWLEDGE AND APPROVAL! Later, as I said, we were unable to come to terms with Apple regarding maintenance and upgrades. >I can't comment on possible replacements since I don't know of any. (Not >my line of work - though it sounds like fun! :-) Too bad. I guess we'll have to wait. As you may have gathered from the above, there was a falling out between Apple and us. The basic problem was that when the Mac II was under development, we went to Apple and tried to create a working relationship with them. At that time, totally out of the blue, Apple demanded source code to MacinTalk, and flatly stated that they would not consider any form of compensation. When we balked at that, they told us that unless we agreed to their terms, Apple would no longer support MacinTalk. We did not agree to their terms, feeling that to do so would be to support the all too common practice of big companies unilaterally and retroactively rewritting already agreed upon contracts. As I said before, since that meeting I've been in contact with several people at Apple (after about a year or so) and have actually found most of the initial contacts rather enthusiastic about resuscitating MacinTalk, but it never got very far. My intention is not to give the impression that this is a full and complete accounting of what went on with MacinTalk, and obviously it's my version of things, but I've seen these half-truths repeated too often now. It's been so long that I don't remember if Rick was actually present in any of our negotiations, or if he is simply repeating what he has heard. In either case, my intention is not to castigate him personally or to start a "you did this/ you did that" sort of flame war, but to answer some of the comments that have come out of Apple regarding MacinTalk. -- | Joseph Katz | SoftVoice | ... but don't his suit fit nice? (213) 390-4417 | jkatz@netcom.com | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~