Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: James.Quilty@comp.vuw.ac.nz (James William Quilty) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: St Paul and Women Message-ID: Date: 27 May 91 21:58:03 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Computer Science, Victoria University, Wellington, NewZealand Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes: > What does Paul mean by this verse? Probably exactly what is says ! > Do slaves have the right to leave > their masters? Paul wrote many times that slaves should obey their > masters, even as they were obeying the Lord. Was it no longer proper > to use the terms "Jew" and "gentile?" Paul uses both in many of his > letters. Slavery is wrong, just as discrimination is - and may be shown PHILOSOPHICALLY to be so. If Paul supported slavery then Paul was WRONG ! (personaly I like to think the best of Paul until his intent is shown beyond doubt !) If you support discrimination then you are WRONG ! Give me a logical argument to show that discrimination is right, or that slavery is right ! I don't think that using the 4000 year old patriachal trick of saying "this is the way God wants it" (and not really giving God much of a chance to decide !) is in any way convincing ! And the message of the verse (which is in no way changed by the context) is that God regards everyone as equal - if any inequality exists in society, it is not due to God, but HUMANS wanting to keep the power for themselves by opressing others (slavery, sexual discrimination) > On many occasions, wives > were commanded to obey their husbands, both by Paul and also in one of > Peter's letters. Paul bases his assertion that women should not teach > in church on the Old Testament. Also commanded is that husbands obey their wives, I recall ! You seem to ignore context of just to whom the letter was written, and the sort of people that were speaking in the church ! (Priestesses from other religions wanting to merge Christianity with their own religion) And whether it occured in the past or not, there is no supporting DISCRIMINATION ! > Do women still have to obey their husbands? Yes. They do. This is what > Paul bases his idea that women should not hold authority over men in > church on. Then Paul was WRONG, if that is what Paul says, but I don't think that what you assert is what Paul was saying - you have failed to provide explicit evidence that the way in which society worked THEN is the way society should work NOW ! I think that you are still confusing the way in which society treats people with the way that God treats people - and saying that the latter means the former. I don't think that is really supported in PHILOSOPHY or the Bible. Jim.