Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!aunro!alberta!herald.usask.ca!lowey
From: lowey@herald.usask.ca (Kevin Lowey)
Newsgroups: comp.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Canceling someone else's article
Message-ID: <1991Jun1.171636.6232@herald.usask.ca>
Date: 1 Jun 91 17:16:36 GMT
References: <1991May30.181628.2931@tygra.Michigan.COM>
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 78

From article <1991May30.181628.2931@tygra.Michigan.COM>, by jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer):
> 
> You are correct. Its your box, no one can tell you how to run it. All I'm
> saying is that you not try to dictate your rules to other systems. If some
> site consistently posts stuff you don't like, put them in your system-wide
> killfile.
>  
> Bravo. Again, this means of course, that you have no RIGHT to tell any 
> other sysop what she can and cannot allow to be posted and exported from
> her system. Again, if you don't like the stuff coming off her system, 
> put it in your kill-file but don't think that you have a RIGHT to TELL
> ANYONE ELSE what they can and cannot allow on their system.

I agree 100% there.

Now lets extend this a little bit.  My local situation is I own some 
equipment that I make available for free for people to use.  We agree that 
I get to make up the rules because I own the equipment. 

However, the same logic also applies to networks.  In Fidonet, Usenet, or
whatever, there are rules and policy guidelines layed down.  For example
some Fidonet newsgroups have moderators.  In Usenet, a moderator is the only
person permitted to post to a newsgroup.  In Fidonet, its a bit different.
A Fidonet moderator OWNS the newsgroup.  He sets policy for the group.  If a 
node is consistantly violating that policy, the moderator has the power to
cut that node from the newsgroup.

The point is that as a sysop, I have full control over how my system
is used.  However, the same can be said about networks.  If I decide to hook
my system into Usenet, then my system becomes a "User" of the Usenet system. 
As such, I have to follow the policies layed down by Usenet (if there are
any).  If I don't, then my node gets kicked out, just as I have the right to 
kick a user off my BBS.

Similarly, Usenet sometimes is carried over telephone lines, and sometimes is 
carried over lines paid for by NSF, or its equivalents in other countries. 
Since they pay for the physical wires, they have the right to say how those 
wires are used.  If NSF says they don't want to pay for the transfer of 
X rated images (alt.sex.pictures), then it doesn't have to.  So even if
Usenet policy says that is OK, Usenet might be forced to CHANGE its policy 
to fall in line with the carriers it uses, or risk losing permission to use
those carriers.  Its identical to how I, as a sysop may have to modify my 
policies to fall in line with Usenet policies if I wish to keep using Usenet.

Its precisely for this reason that special laws were used to define 
Common Carriers like the telephone company, and control the power they had. 
If these laws were not in place, then the telephone company could do whatever
they wanted to their wires, including restricting access to a privileged few,
listening in on conversations, etc.  The laws protect our privacy, and limit 
how much power the owners of the equipment have over the information
sent over their equipment. 

However, those laws do not yet apply to Usenet or Fidonet, as far as I know. 
These are still private organizations who can make up their own rules restrict 
who can access the services, and dictate what the people who access the 
services can and cannot do.

I have to admit I didn't see the original messages in this theme.  It appears
that a System Administrator killed a message that he knew violated Usenet 
policies.  If that is the case, then I think he had every right to do so.  If
not, then he risks being cut of from Usenet for violating Usenet policy.

I admit I don't know a lot about the Usenet policy.  I do know more about
Fidonet.  There is no network wide kill-message feature on Fidonet so this 
exact situation wouldn't occur.  Instead it would go something like this.  A 
person posts a message in a newsgroup that the moderator deems inappropriate. 
The moderator would send a message to the sender expaining the rules, and 
telling him to stop.  If the sender does not stop, then the moderator would
send mail to the sysop of the node asking the Sysop to handle this person by
cutting off his posting privileges.  If the sysop refuses, then the moderator
would tell the node feeding mail to this sysop to disconnect that newsgroup
from that node ... 

Thus, if I saw a chain-letter or some other illegal message, or message that
I know violates policy, you can be sure I'll delete it before it leaves my
board (if I catch it in time) and leave a stern warning to the user envolved.

- Kevin Lowey