Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!hacgate!ashtate!dbase!awd From: awd@dbase.A-T.COM (Alastair Dallas) Newsgroups: comp.databases Subject: Re: The Cult of Clipper (was: Re: PC Magazine skipped Clipper...) Message-ID: <1991May29.203231.26012@dbase.A-T.COM> Date: 29 May 91 20:32:31 GMT References: <24316@gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com> <1991May16.203441.5517@pegasus.com> <1991May21.213203.27689@pegasus.com> Organization: Ashton-Tate, Inc. Lines: 80 In article <1991May21.213203.27689@pegasus.com>, tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes: > In article <1991May20.182201.20099@dbase.A-T.COM> tomr@dbase.UUCP (Tom Rombouts) writes: > > > >I don't see how you missed FoxPro's enhanced windowing functionality. Also, > >I hope people know that Ashton-Tate is working on far more things than > >just dBASE IV 1.2, 1.3, et cetera. Some of our R&D work involves > >things that are unlike any product we currently sell. > > > Tom, It appears that we have various definitions of what constitutes a > 'language enhancement'... you're implying the new GUI C library in town is > an extension to the C language, I don't buy that argument. Excuse me for butting in, but you guys chose to broadcast your discussion. I think Mr. Rombouts' wording was (as you reproduced) "enhanced windowing functionality," not "language enhancement." Clipper 5.0 is all about language enhancement, granted, but as other posters have made clear, these products are all simply means to an end. Language, enhanced or otherwise, is not functionality. > >My paperback dictionary here defines illustrious as "reputable > >because of achievement or character". As such, to say that Mr. Heimendinger > >is not illustrious is one of the understatements of the year! :-) > > > This from a company who had Ed Esber as it's leader. Frankly I'm surprised > that you would stoop to this kind of stuff. I don't even know Mr. Heimendinger, but you can't work in the dBASE field without hearing (probably untrue) stories about him featuring the words sleaze and cutthroat. Ed Esber's reputation is worse, granted, but these folks always seemed cut from the same cloth in the tales I've heard spun. I'd advise Mr. Rombouts (a friend who works 400 miles from my office) to more assiduously avoid slander charges, and Mr. Leylan to get off his high horse. And the net to get back to factual technical issues. > >I personally think that Dave Fulton could give you a run for your money > >there.... :-) (I don't want to sound critical, Tom, but there is rather > >a know-it-all tone in many of your postings, too!) > > Do you know Dave Fulton ? Does he program in FoxPro ? Do the developers of > dBASE Flaw (you want to play word games ?) program in dBASE? What's your problem, guy? Clipper 5.0 not selling due to bad press? I've met Dr. Fulton; I'll bet he uses his own product. I've produced whole dBASE applications under contract; some using Clipper. You sound awfully impressed that you not only worked on Clipper, but you use it, too. It doesn't mean that no one else has something to say. > This isn't a discussion on the relative merits of languages it's a bunch > of people defending their turf. You got that right, and it's a boring waste of time. If you look at any problem closely enough, you'll discover that you are part of the problem. > I find it hard to believe that the same > sort of loony discussions would survive on the C language newsgroup. It > cannot be argued that lexical scoping is "bad" or that powerful preprocessors > should be avoided. Don't be an idiot; of course it can. All technical decisions involve trade-offs and even motherhood issues such as information hiding imply costs. The trade-offs with Clipper 5.0 revolve around compatibility with an established standard and lack of an interactive development environment once one decides to leave the standard behind. > Arguments like that make little sense and I can't be bothered by them. You've been very helpful, in my opinion, to a lot of people in this newsgroup. I find your postings very knowledgable, informative and only occasionally ad hominem. I, for one, hope you'll concentrate on the former and let opinionated fools who try to tell you how Clipper _should_ work bash themselves. Mr. Rombouts does not fall into that category. /alastair/ -- |Disclaimer: I am speaking for myself, not as a spokesman for Ashton-Tate, |which does not monitor my outbursts here. I reserve all rights to my |opinions in terms of commercial endorsements.