Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!darkstar!ucscb.UCSC.EDU!galpin From: galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: The Amiga's Future Message-ID: <16647@darkstar.ucsc.edu> Date: 5 Jun 91 12:21:36 GMT References: <5068@orbit.cts.com> Sender: usenet@darkstar.ucsc.edu Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz; Open Access Computing Lines: 198 In article <5068@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes: >galpin@bill.ucsc.edu (Daniel Abram Galpin) writes: > > (*sigh*, another uninformed (that thinks he knows everything) amigan that > has fallen pray to propoganda, as i shall prove.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ** [And he called MY message a flame..] ** > >> >> [Comment deleted regarding how much I like my Amigas.. but that things >> are often easier and/or better on other machines.] > > [What am I doing on other machines that is nicer/better?] (* sigh *) Okay.. Go into your favorite draw program. Draw something. Put it in the clipboard (if the program even supports it). Just try putting it into one of your favorite documents without saving it or converting it... or (even worse) capturing a screen rendition as a bitmap, saving to disk, and loading it into the publisher. Where is the standard for mathematical graphics? (does it exist?) (** This is a SIMPLE example... there are MANY others **) (Yes.. you CAN do this on a Mac..) >> >> [comments about needed printer support deleted] > >again, AmigaDos 2.0 hasn't been finalized yet, and fairly reliable word has >been handed down that 2.0 *WILL* support compugraphic scalable font technogy >in the OS when it is released in 3rd quarter this year. Windows 3.1 isn't out >yet either. ** [Even windows 3.0 offers SOME scalable support.. and PERFECT support with ATM] ** >what do you mean by "dynamic printer driver support"? your fond ** [Support for all printers including Postscript and internal fonts, as well as dynamic scaling to support graphic fonts for all printers at their maximum resolutions.] ** >of refering to system 7.0, system 7 will not run on a machine with less than 2 >megs of memory, hardly a standard configuration either. ** [But it now IS essentially the standard, see?] ** >the cost of Ms Word, >is about equal to the cost of such programs as PageSetter II, which is a cheap >page layout program that also offers Compu-Graphic support. actually PS II is >probably cheaper. i haven't priced word lately but last i saw it was in the >range of 180 dollars, you could almost buy Pagestream for that. again, wait >for 2.0 to come out officially. > Sorry to burst your bubble.. but Pagesetter II nor PageStream nor Professional Page is a word-processor.... and not just because of their price. Furthermore, I am not satisfied with good printer performance from three or four apps, but would like to see across-the-board solutions.. that must come through the OS or some addition to it. >> [Amiga's don't have enough power.] ... Sorry.. I meant that A500's and A2000's don't have enough power.. the 3000 certainly does ... > >not enough power eh? you call 50 Mhz not enough power? show me a Mac with 50 ** [What C= computer runs at 50 Mhz? ] ** >Mhz.. most of the above suggestions wouldn't work. there would be too many >mid models that would only confuse the customer. the 500's and 2000's hardly >have "nothing" included with them. the only ** [ONLY seems to be a very relative term here] ** >things they don't have is the >faster processor, 32 bit bus, flicker-fixer hardware, and built-in scsi. (well >for the major items, the 3000 also has tons of other niceties, but that's the >joy of owning a high end computer. a 500 is a low end computer, that means >it's designed to be sold cheap. you can't have tons of features and still be >cheap. ** [Obviously a pessimist] ** >your modular system is.... A 2000!, it's called an expansion bus. as >for midi interface, the CDTV has one built in. you suggest alot of things >that people don't want to pay for if their not going to use. ** [But they may use it if it is there] ** >it is far easir > to build your own system than to expect cbm to accomodate every possible >configuration. I don't recall seeing a mac with a built in midi interface, or >a pc for that matter. i don't recall seing ANY pc come with a scsi interface. > most Mac's these days don't have an FPU socket either, the LC can't have one, >and the SI you need to buy and expansion connector to get it. Mac classics >don't have an FPU. Where do you get off claiming these things that aren't >true. > Did I mention Mac Classics ANYWHERE in this rant? Did I claim that Mac's had a FPU, or even the CAPABILITY for one? Point about lack of Mac support for MIDI taken--and we couldn't expect the Amiga to be better than the Mac?? Why a standard SCSI? More powerful applications require mass-storage of some sort. Partially due to standard SCSI, the Mac has more powerful programs available for it.. Many programs assume that the end user has a hard drive... because they can. [*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***] (*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-) lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using 16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM. Radius has a 68040 accelerator for the Macs with 24-bit color built into the board. Don't even THINK of comparing Amiga accelerator peripherals with those available to Mac users. ***) [*** Tangent gone ***] Having an FPU socket is a possible way to give the A500 user (or A2000 user) some extra power without throwing many hundreds of $$$ into their system. Currently the Amiga 500 with an A1024 is running at a similar price to a 16Mhz 386SX with VGA monitor. The CLONE has far more raw processor power. In order for the Amiga to better utilize the Compugraphic technologies that you suggest are coming in the near future (2.1????), why not give the A500 user the ability to add cheap speed? Have you ever printed anything on an Amiga using standard 2.0 printer drivers? As far as peripherals go.. a MIDI interface is not a necessity.. but the more standard hardware becomes available.. the more software supports the standard. I would like to see all MultiMedia packages support MIDI, ALONG with some computer games. I would like to see all publishing packages support a FPU, along with other applications designed for the home user. I would like it for the novice A500 user to be able to expand their system without resorting to hacking.. (beyond the 512k cartridge).. >> [Stuff deleted about graphics] > >This is somewhat true. CBM isn't going to embrace ANY of these devices for a >simple reason. none of them are ideal situations. It is my understanding >that CBM is developing their own system that will be MUCH more forward >compatible with future Amiga's. no sense standardizing a board that may fail >on the 4000. > Where is this system NOW? Will it run on everyone's Amiga? How much will it cost? As you MUST know... there is NO such thing as an ideal situation. Every piece of hardware ever designed was built with compromises.. (as far as I know..) Extra expense and design time for speed... flexability over raw power... manufacturing vs. engineering costs... I really don't care what C= actually does about the graphics.. but I would like to see a solution RSN... (Using Adobe Photoshop on a Mac II was ** damn slow ** but the program displayed scanned images with such clarity that it was enough to make myself and a number of other Amiga enthusiasts silently want anything like it. Not only don't we have Photoshop.. but we don't have anything NEAR the 256 grey scale 640X480 screen I saw it on... without using a third party unsupported product) >> >>An Amiga enhancement such as HAM-E or Colorburst would also work with CD-TV, >>and enable it to have better graphics realism as well... the "Graphics >>Enhancement Cartridge" from Commodore... >> >>Commodore should make CD-ROM available to ALL Amiga owners as soon as >>possible. A relatively low cost CD-ROM peripheral for the Amiga would be an >>excellent selling point. > >obviously you haven't been looking in the Amiga mags. they have shown the >A690 CDTV adapter for the 500 with statements from CBM that a 2000 model is >forthcoming. > I read the blurb in AW as well. It isn't here yet.. just like Compugraphic support. >> [Supportive Amiga statement and software company stuff deleted] > >and MOST of these options are either already there, or being done as we speak. > I really wish people like you would take the time to research these flames >before you hit that save key.. as i've proved most of your allegations false >already i'll step down. > Ahhhh... I see. You considered this to be a FLAME. ** [Thanks for setting me straight] ** 8^) >> >>- Dan Galpin >>galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu >>galpin@cats.ucsc.edu >>" Amiga - the computer sold before its time... which is why it still isn't >>well-aged. " (For more info, check out the December 1984 issue of InfoWorld (** sigh **) to see just how ahead of the times Amiga was... No.. I don't remember which week.. :) ) > >.--------------------------------------------------------------------------. >| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | >| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | >| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | >|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | >| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | >| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | >`--------------------------------------------------------------------------' -- ****************************************************************************** * Amiga // * Short (TM) Signature * DISCLAIMER: * * \\ // * galpin@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU * This space reserved for a * * \X/ Only* COMP. QUOTE: Only time will tell* clever disclaimer someday. * ******************************************************************************