Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!unlinfo.unl.edu!hoss!greg From: greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: MD-BASIC (was:Re: Apple ][ BBS Software) Message-ID: <1991Jun5.214935.24308@unlinfo.unl.edu> Date: 5 Jun 91 21:49:35 GMT References: <1991Jun5.003119.27672@clark.edu> Sender: news@unlinfo.unl.edu Organization: GBBS/ACOS Sysop Support Lines: 118 Nntp-Posting-Host: hoss.unl.edu geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com (Chris Moylan) writes: >greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury, Jr.) writes: >>The GBBS compiler (ACOS -- oh, might as well define that acronym: >>All-purpose Communications Operating System) doesn't require the addition >>of things like ModemWorks and AmperWorks, since everything is already >>built into the language. >Neither does MD-BASIC. ModemWorks and AmperWorks install automatically in >BASIC when ProLine boots. That way all you have to do is put 'em in your >programs. THEN they are flexible (which is what I meant by AppleSoft being >flexible) Sounds more like MD-BASIC is flexible, and is shoehorning its abilities into AppleSoft. >>Whoever told you UNIX was the best interface ever is a damned liar. >I like it best. I won't dispute that. The fact that it is THE best for ALL is what is untrue. Whatever fits the needs. It fits alot but not all of my needs. Therefore it is not THE best. >>Then your comparison was on a poor system. I have seen poor GBBS systems, >>usually due to sysop neglect. I find the message bases the best line-mode >>interface I have yet encountered. >The L & L support BBS suffering from sysop neglect? That surprises me. >I believe the L & L GBBS is running on a //gs, and the message system STILL >SUCKS! L&L Support is running what is referred to as "Stock GBBS". Plain GBBS with few modifications. I am genuinely surprised that it is using FruityDOG to be a FidoNET system. That isn't like Lance. GBBS "Pro" as distributed is a framework to which you can build and modify to make it something unique. L&L exists to show that even the stock code is capable of running. I believe stock code prints the board number in the form of Bn, number of current message (out of total), and [N][?=Help] in its prompt. Other systems will give online time remaining, board name, x of y, and more options (like jump to specific message #) in <40 characters. Unlike ProLine sites, with GBBS, when you see one, you have not seen them all. >>You just named a thing that I despise other systems for: printing >>full-screen menus at every opportunity, including while trying to read >>messages. True, they have a mode to prevent them from appearing unless >>asked for, but then they terse everything down. I feel that when a user >>wants a menu they will ASK for it, not have it foisted on them every time. >Well, you surely know ProLine menus can be turned off, when you set your >preferences. ... If you >turn your menus off all you see is > > Main Menu > > Main:_ > >How is this user unfriendly, it looks the same as any board! This is what I mean by "terse everything down". You get hardly anything from that! Compare with: [30][Main Menu] (?=Help): _ Time remaining, location, and mentioning how you can call up a menu. That comes from GBBS "Pro". Three errors call up the menu automatically. Very friendly to those who are on slow connections. (I know of 3 people still at 300 bps in my area, and no, they aren't C= users. :-) >Also, I had never called a GBBS board before when I cablled that one, so how >was I supposed to know the commands by heart. It is a BIG pain to keep going >into scrollback to see the menu again. The first thing I do when I get on a new system that insists on printing the menu at every opportunity is to turn the menus off. When I want help, I'll ask for it. There is a fine line between being user friendly and insulting the user's intelligence. If they make 3 errors, they need help, and so get the menu automatically. >>Hotkeys >>are another hatred of mine, only tolerated while in reading mode. One >>burst of line noise and you might as well activated the randomizer on your >>TARDIS. ... >>... Hotkeys prevent inclusion of parameters, an ability I use >>often. >I can see your point here, but, again, on ProLine you can turn off Hotkeys. Good. Another plus for ProLine. A minus for Future Visions, the code that comes with METAL. Hotkey removal is the first thing I'm doing to that code. I have to, when I can tell by ear that my data line is noiser than my voice line. Lincoln's Try & Talk is going to get a call from me soon. >>AppleSoft BASIC's inflexibility is aptly demonstrated by the need to use >>& routines. >I meant AppleSoft WITH AmperWorks and ModemWorks was flexible, I misspoke. At least you get my point then. >I agree, BASIC is an acronym. It should be like this: B.A.S.I.C. if you want >to get picky about acronyms! :-) It is so common you can leave off the periods. Kinda like SCSI. :-) >Chris Moylan | ProLine: geniusman@pro-hindugods >CoSysop: Hindu Love Gods BBS | Internet: geniusman@pro-hindugods.cts.com >313/644-0481 | UUCP: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman >300-9600 bps, v.32/v.42/v.42bis | ARPA: crash!pro-hindugods!geniusman@nosc.mil -- /// ____ \\\ "The major problem--one of the major problems, for there are | |/ / \ \| | several--one of the many major problems with governing \\_|\____/|_// people is of whom you get to do it, or more to the greg \_\\\/ hoss.unl.edu point, who gets people to let them do it to them."