Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-ma!pico!barry From: barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: UI idea...comments, anyone? Keywords: drag-and-drop, tools, documents vs. applications Message-ID: <1991Jun3.035743.28221@math.ucla.edu> Date: 3 Jun 91 03:57:43 GMT References: <1991Jun2.203311.19795@fcom.cc.utah.edu> Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Dept. of Math, UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research Lines: 96 In article <1991Jun2.203311.19795@fcom.cc.utah.edu> burchard@math.utah.edu (Paul Burchard) writes: >there's still one significant gap to filled: in >the UI it's hard to work on Documents using different tools--- >especially UNIX tools. >I think it's possible create this ``multiple tool'' functionality with a >minimum of disruption to NeXTstep, by basing it on the drag-and-drop >mechanism which already exists in the Workspace. >The basic idea would be to allow drag-and-drop of file icons into >the icons of executables sitting in the Shelf, Icon Path, or Dock. >Just as folder icons there can accept files, so too would executable icons. >For apps, this would pretty much be the whole story. But doing this for >UNIX commands requires knowing how to construct the proper command line. > This can of course get hairy, but remember that the goal is not to perform ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >arbitrary UNIX command lines, just to call programs that can be thought ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >of as performing an action on a single file. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [suggests using defaults database to store default command lines for various unix commands] As I mentioned in another reply, this is a lot like ``Unkown'' App (which doesn't work in 2.0) Since an Unknown-ish App is able to meet your limited goal (and nearly exists), and since the limited goal is often not enough (even unix commands that act on a single file may need a standard output and standard error to send messages (e.g. wc), and common commands like "grep" are not within your goal) I think we should consider the greater goal to being able to do arbitrary UNIX command lines conveniently without opening a Terminal. The coolest route would be to give each unix command a little App panel, with a field for command line, standard error, standard output, and to be able to take file input from a a little browser, and to allow piping and redirecting graphically, by linking the little app panels by various plumbing fixtures, or sticking little bricks next to eachother. Most of this could be done without NeXT's help, just using the IB; only the graphical piping/redirection would be tricky. That would be pretty neat and fancy, but in reality we could get by with much less. The thing that annoys me most about the current situation is that (1) I need to start up/open a new Terminal (1.5) I often need to su to root first (2) I need to cd to (3) I need to enter on the command line (yes, my shell has filename completion, but its still a pain, and for safety reasons I don't use these conveniences when I am root) (4) Its not the "NeXT way" to do things (i.e.,its totally un-elegant) A suffient fix would be a single ``UNIXCommand" App, which would just be a sort of special purpose Terminal for executing unix commands. What makes this better than using a terminal is that you could eliminate pains (2),(3),(4) by allowing it to get its file inputs/outputs from an associated browser. The UNIXCommand App could also absorb the functionality of "Unkown", by having default coomands/command lines for various file types/command inputs. (Maybe it could even be set up so that one could easily su to root prior to do the commands, thus eliminating another common reason for keeping a Terminal open!) I think a UNIXCommand app is a better fix than trying to get NeXT to ammend the Workspace, because: (1) Someone skilled with IB could probably whip it out in a day, as opposed to years waiting for NeXT to act (not to mention that they wont tell us what they are doing :-) (2) I think NeXT is most concerned with making it unnecessary for the average user to ever need UNIX commands, rather than making UNIX commands easier to apply. (For example, their Installer App (is supposed to) eliminate the need for tar, compress, cat, to install software.) Thus they probably wont go to great lengths to accomodate the ever decreasing number of users who need the raw UNIX commands. So, we few remaining UNIX users need to help ourselves; is anyone planning to make a UNIXCommand App? A related beef: is it/will it ever be possibe to use the GUI/IB to make graphical shell scripts? A graphical front end to a shell script would be the easiest way to make a UNIXCommand App. -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (NeXTMail)