Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!dali.cs.montana.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!ziploc!eps
From: eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next
Subject: Re: what are your UNIX-NeXTStep conflicts (was Re: UI idea)
Message-ID: <1651@toaster.SFSU.EDU>
Date: 4 Jun 91 08:08:40 GMT
References: <1991Jun3.050426.28427@math.ucla.edu>
Reply-To: eps@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)
Distribution: na
Organization: San Francisco State University
Lines: 79

In article <1991Jun3.050426.28427@math.ucla.edu>
	barry@pico.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) writes:
>(1) su-ing to ``root''

I have little sympathy here

>(2) anything that I need to do as root

Ditto

>(3) tar/untar a file

Installer

>(4) compress/uncompress a file

Several third-party products (and archive submissions)

>(5) grep-ing a file

Use Edit

>(6) looking/getting inside of an <Appname>.app directory,
>    mailboxes, and other directories that the browser can't 
>    see inside of (I hate when that happens!)

Try Command-Shift-O

>(7) ftp-ing

Several people are said to be working on this

>(8) compiling

One click in InterfaceBuilder

>(9) doing ``ls -a'' to see files starting with a ``.'',
>    or to look in UNIX directories like /etc, etc.
>     (I know the UNIX Expert setting in Preferences toggles this,
>      but its a pain to have to use Preferences to change it)

Aww...

>(10) running shell scripts

Just double-click on them

>Here is another major UNIX-NeXTStep clash:
>
>(11) The GUI is not accesible from shell scripts

Sure it is... but I don't recommend it  :-)

>What are your favorite UNIX-NeXTStep clashes?

There's entirely too much focus on "applications for morons,"
e.g. NetMangler and UserMangler, which provide no feedback
about what they're REALLY doing so you don't LEARN anything,
and can't fix things when they break.  Whenever someone begins a
post with "I have a NetInfo Network" or "I have a non-NetInfo
Network" I cringe...  These guys haven't got a clue.  When I set
up machines, I decided how *I* wanted them configured, not from
what a braindead GUI app thought was "good enough."  I'm on the
Internet--I need interoperability with a wide variety of
platforms, conformance with de facto standards, reliability,
and security.  You don't get that from clicking buttons.  You
get that from using the lower-level tools, by editing rc
scripts, customizing sendmail configurations, and by replacing
defective executables with working versions.  I've got hundreds
of people (some of them... malevolent) beating on NeXTs every
day, and they stay up, and they do what they're supposed to.
People get their work done, users are happy.

The NeXT is a damn fine UNIX box, and don't you forget it.

					-=EPS=-
-- 
Don't let schoolin' interfere with your education.
Don't let NextStep interfere with your UNIX experience.