Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!netxcom!logan From: logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) Newsgroups: comp.unix.amiga Subject: Re: Tech Notes Message-ID: <433@netxcom.netx.com> Date: 3 Jun 91 17:00:27 GMT References: <415@netxcom.netx.com> <2408@amix.commodore.com> Distribution: usa Organization: NetExpress Inc., Vienna, VA, USA Lines: 138 In article <2408@amix.commodore.com> buck@amix.commodore.com (Richard Buck) writes: # logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: # # > I'm an owner and I don't get the Tech Notes. Why? What do I # > have to do to get them?! Without proper documentation I NEED # > them! Please respond! (Please, oh please, oh please!) # # [ . . . ] To make it easier for people to request # Tech Notes, the last few builds have packed a recent copy of Tech Notes # in the box, so buyers can read an issue and see the address to request future # issues. You presumably got a box from one of the first two builds, which # did not include any reference to Tech Notes. It sounds like C= is doing the right thing now. I suppose I wouldn't have felt as isolated and unsupported if I had waited two months to buy my 3000UXD. # > *** FLAME ON! # > Commodore: # > I really wish you would provide a manual that allows me to use # > the Commodore enhancements, rather than wasting my money by # > making me pay for baby books about how to use "vi"! # # Our documentation is aimed at those people, because they're # the people who cannot make any sense out of the traditional UNIX docs or # man pages. They need us more than you do. Advanced developers can use # the UNIX Press books, available at any store; novice users and budget-sensitive # buyers should not subsidize the minority that want, for example, the # Device Driver Interface/Driver Kernel Interface Reference Manual. From what I've seen on Usenet, I disagree that I am in the minority. I really can't believe that a complete novice would walk into an Amiga store and pick UNIX at this point. It has zilch for third party software (last I checked was a month ago), it is as buggy as hell, the GUI is in B&W, and the GUI is 10x slower that AmigaDOS'. Lots of people say that UNIX is the best thing since sliced bread (I am one), but non-UNIX people continue to turn up their noses at it. (Especially when I make excuses for my $10k machine's inability to use a 19200 baud modem under UNIX or its inability to provide functionality like the Mac has with the Finder under UNIX!) In the long run, C= is doing the right thing by exposing College students to the Amiga, since they will recognize the Amiga as a real computer when they get hired by Future-500 companies after graduation. In the short term, I believe that the Amiga isn't going to make it out there unless people like me can show friends (and fellow software engineers at major companies) that my Amiga works and works as well as any other computer on the market. I really can't believe that C= thinks they are going to sell UNIX to anyone besides UNIX hardened people at this point. Even the universities C= is selling to will be hiring experts to get their systems up and provide support. Those experts will need what I need! Do you really think students will be reading the baby books? I think they will ask the experts first. I want C= to sell UNIX boxes. It will be as much to my disadvantage as it would be to C='s if they didn't sell any UNIX boxes. I think there can be a huge market for the Amiga in the commercial sector. There are many UNIX-oriented software development companies in the DC Metro area, and I probably know at least one person from every company. If C= can give them more bang for the buck, guess what they'll be buying quantities of? Those people won't want baby books! # We have noticed that many people want to network at a level higher than is # covered in our basic books, and the UNIX Press networking books are hard # to use. We are therefore about to complete a pretty advanced network and # administration guide. That sounds right to me. # Still, we won't have the kind of specialized documentation you want; the # audience is too small. Note that direct, priority support for UNIX # developers is available through CATS; they may have information on special # development issues for Amiga UNIX. We added Tech Notes, on the side, to # address specific problems that basic users don't care about. What is CATS? # Finally, every Amiga UNIX enhancement and driver is documented in our # man pages. Completely untrue in 1.1 . Tell me where to find those man pages and I'll take that back. # We truly believe that we've answered each audience appropriately - for # the desktop market. I think C= is kidding themselves. # [ . . . ] Our core distribution includes these man pages, because we # believe that UNIX is not UNIX without the man pages. I'm not saying C= should include the standard printed man pages -- I can (and did) buy them elsewhere. What I can't buy are the Amiga-specific commands and drivers that are undocumented in 1.1! # > Like, where did "fmtflop" go? It took me quite a while to # > figure out that there is a special device I have to write to! I # > wasted my time looking for a command to do it! # # Our floppy format command is documented in the # "baby books". You wasted your time looking for a command whose name you # did not know, instead of checking the index of the manual. Try typing "man fmtflop". It comes up on my screen under 1.1 and under SEE ALSO says "if(7)". When I type "man if" I get "tcp_if(7)". That led me to believe that they were taken out because they didn't work yet. A command whose name I didn't know? Come on! The fmtflop command is in the man pages and it exists on every other System V system I've used! # To avoid this problem in the future, the 2.0 release includes a new # interactive format command, linked so people can find it with either # "format" or "fmtflop". The old fdfmt is still there as well. We aims # to please. "man fdfmt" yields "No manual entry for fdfmt." Even when I found it and tried it it didn't work. It doesn't take an argument and even when I redirected its output to /dev/dsk/fd0 it gave me errors! It took some poking around to find /dev/dsk/fd0f because I had no idea what to look for at that point. # > *** Flame off. -- Jim Logan Home: uunet!gimlet!logan Consultant Work: logan@netx.com Net Express, Inc. Phone: (703) 749-2269