Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!midway!mimsy!falstaff.mae.cwru.edu From: gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu (Geoff Kotzar) Newsgroups: rec.guns Subject: Re: PRODUCT WARNING FOLLOWUP Message-ID: <35200@mimsy.umd.edu> Date: 4 Jun 91 03:14:44 GMT Sender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University Lines: 65 Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu In article <35007@mimsy.umd.edu> bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) writes: #In article <34979@mimsy.umd.edu> gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu (Geoff Kotzar) writes: ##I regularly size cast bullets down .008-.009 inch without ##trouble, so I don't believe what Lyman has told you. To ##use Lee's 350 and 405 .458 slugs in my Casull I have to ##reduce their diameters from .460 to .451 and my Lyman 450 ##does the job just fine in steps of .003 inches. The only (stuff deleted) John Bercovitz wrote: # #I pushed the bullet ejector down and pre-lubed the die by #cranking on the lube handle, so I know I had plenty of lube. #(Messy but effective.) Besides, the problem was still #occurring 150 bullets later when I gave up. What could be #different between your set up and mine? The alloy? Are #you using Lyman #2 alloy (5 Sn, 5 Sb, 90 Pb)? The fellow at #Lyman didn't say anything about the age of the press - mine's #about 20 years old - he just flat out said that .003 was too #much for the press with #2 alloy and a bullet that big. I #wonder if your press is newer/hardier somehow? My brand #of lube is Javelina Alox/beeswax; I presume that's as good #as any other in regards to this problem? (stuff deleted) # #Thanks very much for the reply relating your experiences. # # JHBercovitz@lbl.gov (John Bercovitz) My 450 is about the same age as yours being purchased new in 1968. Until about 2 years ago I used Javelina lube exclusively. I still do in an RCBS and a Star for sizing rifle and certain pistol bullets. I switched over to LBT Blue in the 450 but that should not make any difference. With regard to alloy I have never used Lyman #2 because the wheelweight supply has been very good in my area. Lyman #2 is a lot softer than straight WW so if anything I should have the more severe problem. Your questions interested me so I ran a test this past weekend. I took some grossly oversized bullets I had for my .41 that miked .420. I had cast them out of WW. Using a .410 die I ran 3 of them through without putting any pressure on the lube reservoir. Aside from some excessive force required and the usual "chunk, chunk, chunk" as I passed the grease grooves they went in smoothly and came out smoothly. I then took 5 of them and heattreated them. I do not have a Brinell hardness tester in our lab but we do have a Rockwell tester. On the "L" scale - 1/4 inch ball and 60 kg load - pure lead runs about a 5 as-cast WW about 40-42, mono-type about 64, and ht-WW runs around 90. Annealed copper runs around 92. I put two of these babies through my 450 and will never do it again. The force was ridiculous BUT they went in smoothly and once I got them moving they came out the same way. On top of that, the sized diameters ran between .4105 and .411 for the ht-WW and between .4100 and .4107 for the ac-WW. This was after reducing their diameters .010 inch. You might want to check your sizing die with a lead slug if your bullets are popping out .402. I suspect the difference is just that I started out using straight mono-type and have grown accustomed to stiff action when sizing and lubing. My 450 has been in continuous service for 21 years and is in as good a condition as my shooting buddies' which is only about 2 years old. The only reason I bought the other two lubri/sizers was to enable me to use different lubricants without having to clean the reservoir out and to allow me to size and lube bevel base bullets.