Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!pender.ee.upenn.edu!rowe From: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe) Newsgroups: sci.bio Subject: Re: Animal planning Message-ID: <43903@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 29 May 91 23:47:13 GMT References: <17580001@hpfcdj.HP.COM> <1850@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Reply-To: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe) Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 127 Nntp-Posting-Host: pender.ee.upenn.edu In <17580001@hpfcdj.HP.COM> sjk@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Steve Kommrusch) writes: >Howdy netland, > >Some friends of mine and I were wondering about the particulars of >planning in animals. The only examples of animal planning which we >are aware of involve actions taken in response to a current desire. >And we were wondering if there are examples of animals planning for >a future desire that is clearly NOT instinctive. ... >Some examples in nature which appear to be planning for future desires >but are instinctive would be: ... collecting nuts >in squirrels As at least one other poster (Doug Yanega?) has pointed out, you should be careful about the learned/instinctive dichotomy. There probably isn't one any more than there is a dichotomy between light and dark... However, squirrels are much more fascinating animals than I would guess that you are giving them credit for. Lucy Jacobs has done field work and work with captive squirrels, and demonstrated that they do not just collect nuts; they hide them in little caches that they will dig up again sometimes months later. [Actually this idea of caching has been known for a loooong time... what Lucy showed is that the squirrels apparently remember the locations where they hide things rather than just digging randomly and occasionally coming across something that they had previously stored.] You should watch squirrels carefully sometimes. You may see that in the fall/winter they will carry food around, dig holes and bury the food, and in the spring/summer you should see them wander around and suddenly choose a place to dig. Ofentimes they come up empty, but sometimes (particularly if they are near their home tree) they will come up with something buried there previously. And if that's not enough, there's a guy (Bernd Heinrich?) who has studied bees (I say this possibly to jog Doug Yanega's memory if my memory of his name is incorrect) who has shown that a particular type of squirrel purposely scars the bark of trees in order to get sap from them. The problem is that the squirrels would not get a high enough energy return if they licked at the bark immediately after they bit into it, so they must wait for the sap to ooze out and partially evaporate so that the sugar concentration goes up. The squirrels make an incision in the bark, and then must return to that place some hours later to reap the reward that they set out to obtain... >The clearest proof of planning for future desires would be a controlled >experiment. Consider a captive chimp held in a room in which artificial >hail falls every 48-72 hours. This chimp has been provided with the >materials she needs to build a complex shelter (3 or 4 minutes for the >chimp to build the shelter). ... So, when it starts hailing, our >intrepid chimp builds the shelter in the storm and hangs out until the >hail stops (a half-hour later, say). After 2-24 hours, we go in and >dismantle the shelter. After a sufficient number of hailstorms, will >the chimp realize she should build the shelter soon after we dismantle >it, or will she always build it AFTER the hail begins falling? Similar (but much less complicated) experiments have been performed in many animals, I believe. One obvious one that comes to mind is that bees can be trained to come to a particular place at a particular time. You can try this yourself by carefully placing a bowl of sugar water in a particular location every day at the same time, and then removing it after a fixed interval (say two hours). After a few days (maybe a week) you should see that bees will begin to arrive there shortly before you place the bowl, and will be gone shortly before you remove it. Similarly it has been observed that sharks off of enewetok atoll would begin to congregate at a particular dock every day just before the garbage was about to be dumped there. I suspect that it is very common for animals to "plan" to be at a particular location when food is likely to be available. In the case of bees, the ability comes in handy wrt flowers that open at certain times during the day. For sharks the natural correlate would likely be the circadian activity patterns of coral reef fish. Not quite as elaborate as your gedanken chimp experiment, but it still represents anticipation of an event prior to sensory experience of it. > Steve Kommrusch > sjk@hpfcsjk@hplabs.hp.com And: In article <1850@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> shafto@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Eric Shafto) writes: >Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read this, but I've been >meaning to ask someone if it was true for quite a while, anyway. > >Supposedly, some researchers following a chimp troop heard some >strange chimp noises coming from another troop. They followed >the noise, and found the troop gathered outside the den of some >large cat (Leopard?). > >The three biggest males were standing just outside the entrance, >yelling and waving their arms, apparantly to intimidate the leopard. >Eventually, they started darting in and out of the den, and finally >one of them emerged with a newly born cub, which they then played >with until it was dead, and they all left. > >I cannot conceive of any rationale for that behavior except >planning. Of course, it is an evolutionary advantage to do this, >so it *could* be instinctual, but I don't know how likely that >seems. > >Anyone have better information? >-- >*Eric Shafto * Sometimes, I think we are alone. Sometimes I * >*Institute for the * think we are not. In either case, the thought * >* Learning Sciences * is quite staggering. * >*Northwestern University * -- R. Buckminster Fuller * I read about this in a popular science rag (Discover, Science Digest or Science [year]) about 5 or 6 years ago, I think. It was claimed that the chimpanzees carried the dead cub around as though a human might treat a Teddy bear or a doll--they cradled it, and cooed to it as if it was one of their own infants. Eventually it was dropped and recovered by the researchers who observed the chimps' behaviour. I can't recall as that this was observed more than once, but your characterization rings true to my memory; the chimps purposely drove the mother away so that they could get to the cub and kill it. I remember the whole thing seeming kind of gruesome... Mickey Rowe (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)