Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!jarthur!ucivax!gateway From: mjm@ahimsa.intel.COM (Marjorie Panditji) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: synonyms Message-ID: Date: 31 May 91 20:08:01 GMT Lines: 84 Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: alexandre-dumas.ics.uci.edu One final article on thesauruses and gender bias, and then I'll stop. (Honest!) :-) mara> Well, my opinion is that "gold digger" is *not* a "synonym" for mara> "woman," but also that what a thesaurus lists is not exactly mara> "synonyms" anyhow. I agree with this statement. Here is what I said in my previous article (perhaps it was overlooked): me> I realize that a thesaurus is for finding words and that words do not me> have to be interchangeable in order to be listed as synonyms. I did not me> intend to convey that message. mara> As to "vegetarian," even though more women than men may be mara> vegetarians, I don't believe that most people use the word with any mara> idea of connoting the sex of the person in question; it's the mara> dietary choice that is significant. I completely agree, and that is precisely why I used vegetarian as an example of a word which should *not* be listed under the category woman. I also used rapist as a word that should *not* be listed under the category of man. mara> Whereas with "gold digger," mara> although the behavior exists in men as well as in women, the term mara> applies to women exclusively; men are variously "fortune hunters" or mara> "gigolos" if they behave in that way. I believe that this is where we start to disagree. I agree with your statement that gold digger is a term used for women, and that different terms are used for men. Similarly, rapist is almost exclusively used for men, even though women can exhibit similar behavior. However, just because a term applys mostly or solely to women, it still doesn't make sense, in my opinion, to list it under the generic category of woman. As I said before, I might expect to find gold digger under girlfriend or lover (and similarly with gigolo and fortune hunter, under boyfriend or lover). I wouldn't expect any of these terms to be found under man or woman. They just are not broad enough, in my opinion, to be under such broad categories. They should be listed under categories that have more to do with the behavior. I guess there are two issues for me. One is gender bias (why did the person writing the thesaurus think of gold digger for woman and not gigolo for man?), and the other is what the categories of man and woman mean (why would anyone think of gold digger or gigolo when listing entries for woman and man? Why wouldn't those be listed under lover or something like that?). mara> PS-- I thought it was pretty obvious from the thesaurus that I was mara> quoting that there *is* gender bias operating. Even though that's an mara> old book I doubt things have changed a whole lot since, but I guess mara> I should at least thumb through a more recent edition to see for myself. Yes, that part of your article was obvious, and I completely agree. But I guess we have differences in what categories mean, and how strong the connection of a word should be before it is listed under a broad category such as man or woman. Just as another example, here are the entries listed for man and woman in the WordPerfect 5.1 thesaurus. Note that it doesn't list nearly as many entries as most thesauruses, but there does not seem to be any obvious gender bias, which is nice! (If there is one, I missed it.) Man: male, gentleman, chap, fellow, guy, consort, husband, mate, spouse, employee, worker, attendant, human being, humanity, person, individual, mankind, people Woman: female, lady, matron, dame, consort, spouse, wife, employee, worker, attendant, human being, person, individual, people, womankind Perhaps you would find this thesaurus deficient because it does not list "gold digger" for woman or "gigolo" for man. I do not. I expect to find both those words in different categories. And I especially do not expect to find only one listed and not the other, whether the one listed is gold digger or gigolo (this is to respond to Eric's comment that gender bias is only noticed or disapproved of when it applies to women). -- Marjorie Panditji mjm@ahimsa.intel.com -or- uunet!intelhf!ahimsa!mjm