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From: rrandall@zach.fit.EDU (Rick Randall)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Military Discrimination (was Re: Sexism vs. Men's Oppression)
Summary: women got it easier
Message-ID: <2590@winnie.fit.edu>
Date: 3 Jun 91 19:22:41 GMT
References: <1991May13.194337.3494@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <282f3194.17a3@petunia.CalPoly.EDU> <MUFFY.91May24155156@remarque.berkeley.edu>
Reply-To: Rick Randall the 1st <rrandall@zach.fit.EDU>
Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, EE dept, Melbourne, FL
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Muffy Barkocy writes:

>Why do you assume that this it is a benefit to women to be
>discriminated against by the military?  I know of at least two women
>of my acquaintance who were upset that they were not *allowed* to be
>involved in the combat in the Gulf.  The women who do choose a career
>in the military are not given the same opportunities, rights, etc. as
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>men.  This certainly isn't a benefit to them.
>

	I was just passing through, and thought I would comment on
this incorrect statement.  I spent four years as an army enlisted
soldier and can tell you that WITHOUT DOUBT the army bends over
backwards to *try* to make "opportunities" the same for men and women.
The promotion system used by the army is about as discrimination-free
as any bureaucratic system is going to be.  Likewise, benefits and all
of that other crap recruiters hype about are kept pretty much
discrimination-free also.  I you really want to know the details on
the Army's bureaucratic systems, send email and I will describe it for
you.

	Note my emphasis on the word "try" in the above paragraph.  As
things turn out, women in many situations have ADVANTAGES over men.
Many [if not *MOST*] soldiers become disallusioned [fed up] with the
Army's nonsence at some point in their enlistments.  A WOMAN that
wants to end her enlistment contract early with NO dishonor only has
to do one thing: Get pregnant.  I am personally familiar with no less
than SIX cases where a women used pregnancy as her "ticket out" of a
miserable job or situation that a MAN would simply have to put up
with.  Since you mention the "desire" of women to be in a combat
situation, I would like to shed some light on what that is like:


When a unit goes to the field [ie, does their thing in an outdoor
environment], the MEN invariably get stuck doing the manual labor of
lugging 300 pound tents around, setting the tents up, and lugging
crates of supplies around also.  Since this has to be done first,
female members of units are more-or- less idle during this time.  Keep
in mind that "going to the field" is not a sporadic event: Some units
do it ALL OF THE TIME.  I'm sure that some of the readers out there
know military wives.  The husband might "come in" for a week, then
goes back to the field for another 3 weeks.  EVERY time that unit goes
out to the field, and EVERY time they pack up to come in, the women
"get away" with something that irritates a lot of the men.


  The above paragraph describes just one example.  While IN the field,
women clearly have more problems [mostly in health/hygiene] on average
than men do.  For some reason there are a lot of empiracal cases of
foot/blister injuries, stomach sickness, etc seem to happen to women
when its time for field duty.  One thing that afflicts a LOT of
soldiers [both male and female] is the painful CUTTING that loaded
ruck sacks [ie, big "back packs"] cause to shoulders.  Where a females
ADVANTAGE comes in the following: You can't imagine how many times on
road marches [ie, long walks with aformentined ruck sacks on] that a
disproportional number [50-75%] of the WOMEN had men carrying their
ruck sacks, if the women participated in the road march at all.
Usually, no-one makes any fuss about this state of affairs.  On the
other hand, a MAN often has to be on the verge of a medical emergency
to get excused from a road march or have a fellow soldier "be allowed"
to carry the man's ruck sack.

	Another common occurance of women having an advantage is when
they get field showers installed for them while the men sit and STINK
for weeks [it happens in training all of the time, it happened in
Saudi Arabia also].  "Theres not enough time or water to let all of
the men shower", so the excuses go.  For the *COMBAT* units at the
Saudi border, the excuse was real.


  So maybe you're 2 female friends wanted to "be in on it" when the US
was shooting at the fleeing Iraqis.  How would they have felt if they
were only allowed to shower ONCE EVERY TWO WEEKS for *six months*
prior to that ???

			-------------------------
			| Rick G. Randall	|
			| rrandall@zach.fit.edu |
			-------------------------