Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!usc!aero-c!nadel
From: DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Jon J Thaler)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Sexism vs. Men's Oppression
Message-ID: <91151.135451DOCTORJ@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 3 Jun 91 21:25:02 GMT
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 36
Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org
Status: R
Originator: nadel@aerospace.aero.org


In article <1991May29.182720.349@MDI.COM>, gannon@MDI.COM (Alden Gannon) says:
>Based on my experiences, and those of many other men, men do not feel
>oppressed by women per se.  In fact, oppression is prehaps too strong a term.
>Men feel *disadvantaged* in at least the following areas in society:
>
>1.  The draft (this one is more like oppression).
>2.  Parental choice (Women have it, men don't).
>3.  Alimony, child support, and custody.
>4.  Rape and domestic abuse law.
>5.  Affirmative Action for only women and minorities.
>6.  Hate crimes against gay men (this one *is* oppression).

  [...stuff deleted...]

>If men hold the power, where did I get my six points?  Why is it in the
>interests of men to create AA, or sexist abuse laws?  Men do *not* hold
>sovereignty (in the Rouseauian sense).  It is held by powerful voting
>constituencies; one of which is NOW.

I think that the issue is more complicated than this.  For example, the
all-male draft is not seen by all men as oppressing men.  Many see the
opportunity to defend our country as a privilege and a duty -- one that
the presence of women in combat would make more difficult.
Similarly, not all men see AA as oppressing them.  They are willing
to give up something for the goal of equality (I'm not arguing here
whether AA is the right answer...just how it's perceived by some.)
Also, I think that it is easily demonstrable that the alimony,
child support, and custody laws predate the existence of NOW or any
other effective "women's" lobby.  They date from a time when women
were not supposed to be out working.

I'd be surprised if any supporter of women's and minority rights doesn't
oppose the poor treatment of gay men (and women, too).  But, again, some
of the most homophobic people around are men; you don't need NOW or any
other constituency to explain point 6.