Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sabbath change and History (was a question for those in love ...) Message-ID: Date: 3 Jun 91 03:50:10 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 202 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , James.Quilty@comp.vuw.ac.nz (James William Quilty) writes: > In article , > davidbu@loowit.wr.tek.com (David E. Buxton) writes: > > History bears out that the conversion to Sunday came > > later during a time when many new innovations came into the church - > > many of these rejected by the Protestant Reformation. > > Here are some historical facts BEFORE the papacy became a power in the > Christian church: (from A.A Hoekema's "The Four Major Cults") > > Rev 1:10 "I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day" (written about A.D. 95, by > John. The expression "the Lord's Day" has been understood universally to refer > to the Sunday [via standard lexicons and commentators]. To forestall replies >based on SDA doctrine on this verse I will treat it here: SDAs contend that the > expression "the Lord's Day" refers here to Saturday, saying: "the earliest > authentic instance, in the early church writings, of the first day of the week > being called 'Lord's Day' was by Clement of Alexandria, near the close of the > second century". That this statement is quite contrary to fact will be > evident from the following quotations: > . . . . . . . . . . . . Let me address myself to the question of the Lord's Day. My study has shown that the earliest authentic statement associating the Lord's Day to Sunday comes in 200 AD. There are numerous supposed quotations attributed earlier than this date that turn out to have their problems. For example, later early fathers claiming that earlier early fathers made such statements, but on closer research it turns out they said no such thing, or the document drawn from turns out to be an accepted fraud, shown to be a fraud by Sunday advocates who could not accept the other threads of early origin of things rejected by the Protestant Reformation. Another fraud that more honest Sunday advocates have documented to be incorrect is where the purported translation of "Lord's Day" should have been "Lord's Supper", where the lineage of documentation should have been offered in support of an early tradition of the Mass instead of Sunday. It is possible that in Revelation John was speaking of the Lord's Supper as the Lord's Day? There is of course no proof of this. He could have been speaking of visions in the context of the Day of the Lord - the Day of Judgement. It is generally understood that John wrote the book of John after writing the book of Revelation. In the book of John he uses the words "on the first day", instead of "Lord's Day". If John was trying to establish a connection between "Lord's Day" = Sunday he would have used such terminology in his later writings. I think it is best to leave this text in Revelation alone in terms of being a proof text for Lord's Day = Sunday. The only proof for this thesis coming from history in the context of other theologies adamantly rejected by the Protestant Reformation. If early church history is to be taken as proof then annul the Protestant Reformation. In 2 Th 2 we read about apostacy already becoming apparant to Paul. The influx of paganisms was especially a problem around Rome. A friend of mine, recently died in a plane crash, was traveling the world with his video camera documenting that when the gospel exploded out to the world, that the Sabbath went with it. Then along came the crusades to stamp out all those who did not subscribe to the traditions of Rome and they stamped out a lot of Sabatarians - the best documentation of these extincted peoples being from their enemies. The following is drawn from many such quotations, but with a focus on just the Waldenses - there are plenty of quotes from their enemies to show that more distant from Rome the Sabbath was more the accepted norm: ------ This time I'll skip references to churches in Scotland, Ireland, Constan- tinople, Greece, Spain, Norway, Bohemia, France, India, England, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Holland, Germany, etc. I'll just focus on the Wal- denses. Well, on second thought, I'll include one non-Waldensian example: "There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales univer- sally until A.D. 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David's. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places." (Lewis, "Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol. 1, p. 29) J. F. Coltart writes - Roman Catholic writers try to evade the apostolic origin of the Waldenses, so as to make it appear that the Roman is the only apostolic church, and that all others are later novelties. And for this reason they try to make out that the Waldenses originated with Peter Waldo of the twelth century. Dr. Peter Allix says: "Some Protestants, on this occasion, have fallen into the snare that was set for them . . . It is absolutely false, that these churches were ever founded by Peter Waldo . . . It is a pure forgery." (Ancient Church of Piedmont," pp. 192. Oxford: 1821.) "It is not true, that Waldo gave this name to the inhabitants of the valleys: they were called Waldenses, or Vaudes, before his time, from the valleys in which they dwelt." (Id., p. 182) And he "was called Valdus, or Waldo, because he received his religious notions from the inhabitants of the valleys." (History of the Christian Church," William Jones, Vol. II, p.2) Waldenses - 4th Century: It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spain near the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originally inhabited. By a people called both "Valdenses" and "Sabba- tati." Waldenses - 10th Century: "And because they observed no other day of rest but the Sabbath dayes, they called them Insabathas, as much as to say, as they observed no Sabbath." (Luther's "Fore-Runners," pp. 7,8) Waldenses - 12th Century "Robinson gives an account of some of the Waldenses of the Alps, who were called Sabbati, Sabbatati, Insabbatati, but more frequently Inzabbatati. 'One says they were so named from the Hebrew word Sab- bath, because they kept the Saturday for the Lord's day.'" (General History of the Baptist Denomination," Vol. II, p. 413) Waldenses in France - 13th Century "To destroy completely these heretics Pope Innocent III sent Dominican inquisitors into France, and also crusaders, promising "a plenary rem- ission of all sins, to those who took on them the crusade . . . against the Albigenses." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XII, art. "Ray- mond VI," p. 670) "The inquisitors . . . [declare] that the sign of a Vaudois, deemed worthy of death, was that they followed Christ and sought to obey the commandments of God." (History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages," H. C. Len, Vol. 1,) "Thousands of God's people were tortured to death by the Inquisition, buried alive, burned to death, or hacked to pieces by the crusaders. While devastating the city of Biterre the soldiers asked the Catholic leaders how they should know who were heretics; Arnold, Abbot of Cisteaux, answered: "Slay them all, for the Lord knows who is His." ("History of the Inquisition," pp. 98,) "The heresy of the Vaudois, or poor people of Lyons, is of great anti- quity, for some say that it has been continued down ever since the time of Pope Sylvester; and others, ever since that of the apostles," (The Roman Inquisitor, Reinerus Sacho, writing about 1230) "The Paulicians, Petrobusians, Passaginians, Waldenses, Insabbatati were great Sabbath-keeping bodies of Europe down to 1250 A.D." Waldensis - 14th Century "That we are to worship one only God, who is able to help us, and not the Saints departed; that we ought to keep holy the Sabbath day," ("Luther's Fore-runners," p. 38) ""For centuries evangelical bodies, especially the Waldenses, were called Insabbati because of Sabbath-keeping." (Gui, Manuel d' Inquisiteur.) "In 1310, two hundred years before Luther's theses, the Bohemian brethren constituted one-fourth of the population of Bohemia, and that they were in touch with the Waldenses who abounded in Austria, Lom- bardy, Bohemia, north Germany, Thuringia, Brandenburg, and Moravia. Erasmus pointed out how strictly Bohemian Waldenses kept the seventh day Sabbath." (Armitage, "A History of the Baptists," p. 318; Cox, "The Literature of the Sabbath Question," vol. 2, pp. 201-2) Waldenses - 15th Century "Louis XII, King of France (1498-1515), being informed by the enemies of the Waldenses inhabiting a part of the province of Province, that several heinous crimes were laid to their account, sent the master of Requests, and a certain doctor of the Sorbonne, to make inquiry into this matter. On their return they reported that they had visited all the parishes but could not discover any traces of those crimes with which they were charged. On the contrary, they kept the Sabbath day, observed the ordinance of Baptism, according the the primitive church, instructed their children in the articles of the Christian faith, and the commandments of God. The King having heard the report of his com- missioners, said with an oath that they were better men than himself or his people." ("History of the Christian Church," Vol. II, pp. 71, 72 3'd edition. London: 1818) Revelation "When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war agaisnt the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus." (Rev. 12:13- 17) "Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they that keep the com- mandments of God." (Rev. 14:12) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. (Rev. 22:14) Dave (David E. Buxton)