Xref: utzoo soc.religion.islam:1218 soc.culture.pakistan:8235 soc.culture.indian:52573 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!zahle.wpi.edu!shari From: azhar@cs.duke.edu (Salman Azhar) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian Subject: Re: Some thoughts on common questions regarding religion Message-ID: <1991Jun3.175350.28086@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 3 Jun 91 17:53:50 GMT References: <1991May29.144819.24991@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1991Jun3.142416.20487@wpi.WPI.EDU> Sender: news@wpi.WPI.EDU (News) Followup-To: soc.religion.islam Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C. Lines: 106 Approved: shari@zahle.wpi.edu Originator: shari@zahle.wpi.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: zahle.wpi.edu In article <1991Jun3.142416.20487@wpi.WPI.EDU> adnan@flammulated.rice.edu (Sarmad Adnan) writes: >I found Salman's answers to the first two questions misleading, his answer >to the third question is applicable to all religions. While his elaborations >on the classic socio-evolution argument have no substance for the non-muslims. >1) How does Islam deal with atheists/"unreligious" people like me? >Azhar> Islam tells muslims to treat with irreligious people like >Azhar> other human beings. No human can condemn another to hell. >As for condemning humans to hell the Quran has a very clear-cut point of view. Perhaps, it was not clear from my original response that *I* or *you* or *anyone* from any religions cannot condemn anyone else to hell. It is a God's judgement period. The reason is simply God knows everything in the future, past, and present. I agree that it is preferable to have muslim friends (with the intention of enhancing your belief) than non-mulsims friends. However, my original statement about treating all humans like humans regardless of religion still holds ground. Even though, you are not allowed to pray for forgiveness for your non-muslims relatives, you are obligated to deal with them as you would deal muslim friends. This includes financial and social help. >2) What does the Quran say about the role of women in society? In relation >to man. > >Azhar> According to Islam, women can do everything a man can, own everything a >Azhar> man can, etc. ... In the institution of marriage, >Azhar> the husband has some degree of authority over wife. > >Islam had greatly enhanced women's role in society with respect to the then >prevalent conditions in Arabia. But it is not just the institution of >marriage where Islam falls short of the currently socially acceptable status >of women. Islam limits the weight of a woman's testimony in court to one half >of that of a man. Some scholars believe that this injunction is only implied in financial matters. However, this is disputed by the other (more conservative) scholars. According to my sources the verse you quote was revealed under circumstances of financial disputes. However, your original contention (based on the motivation to seek exact equality) holds ground. - 2:282 O ye who believe! when ye deal with each other, in -transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce -them to writing ............ and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and -if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for -witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The -witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). -Her rights of inheritance are also much more curtailed than -that of men. As far as inheritance is concerned, one has to recognize that men have been given much responsibility (i.e accountability to God as ooppsed to social responsibility) along with the benefit of a twice the share. My statement above assumes that one believes in the "day of judgement", and recognizes that our actions would be determine how we are rewarded/punished. Furthermore, this injunction only applies for the propoerty not "willed" to hiers/others. >Salman Azhar's reply implies that it is only in marriage that >Islam allows men to have a degree of superiority over women. -Women role in Marriage: - 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three -monthly periods, nor is it lawful for them, to hide what God hath created -in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their -husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they -wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a -degree (of advantage) over them and God is Exalted in Power, Wise. The wait prescribed is to ascertain beyond shadow of doubt the biological father of a child (in case of pregnancy). The underlined part (above) is often ignored by most muslim men. I try to refrain from quoting isolated verses of Quran in a controversial debate. One has to study the situation under which they revealed. I can show that alcohol is allowed in reasonable quantities using isolated verses. Furthermore, I have a tendency to find exactly those verses that support my view (using index etc.). So, please understand my aproach (of assuming that the reader would carry out an objective and thorough research). Sarmad, could you also please elucidate why the socio-economic "elaboration" does not work for non-mulsims. I do not understand how I am charged "sanitizing" Islam for Westerners and presenting "elaborations" which do not "work" for non-muslims. In reality, I am only saying what my religious knowledge and understanding leads me to believe. I have no politcal goals whatsoever. So, I request that we do not read into each other's minds what is not there. Salman [This is the Book; In it is the guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear God; believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, spend out of what God has provided for them. And,those who believe in the revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and do not doubt the Hereafter. Baqra:2-4 ] Azhar -- For, Believers are those who, when God is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts. And, when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened. And, put all their trust in their Lord. -Spoils of War (8:2)