Xref: utzoo alt.bbs.internet:519 comp.admin.policy:353 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jb3o+ From: jb3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Allen Boone) Newsgroups: alt.bbs.internet,comp.admin.policy Subject: Re: 804 dialout Message-ID: Date: 7 Jun 91 15:18:48 GMT References: <1991Jun2.211543.15194@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <1991Jun3.134026.11020@athena.mit.edu> <1991Jun4.143647.4165@rodan.acs.syr.edu>, <1991Jun7.050512.29949@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> Distribution: usa Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 84 In-Reply-To: <1991Jun7.050512.29949@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> tfabian@falcon.lerc.nasa.gov (Teddy Fabian) writes: > whether the dialouts in question have a password on them or not isn't > the issue.. the issue is whether or not it's right for you or me (or any > of a thousand other people) to use something to their advantage that isn't > meant for them to use.. Actually, within a certain domain, it is the issue of whether or not access was restricted or people were informed. There is a difference between a car and a dialout. For instance, if you did use my car without my permission/knowledge, I'd be worried about getting it back, who had taken it, etc. On the other hand, if you were using, say, my television - you were just sitting there watching my tv - and not causing any other difficulty, then I'd have to say that I would mind much less. It costs money for someone to pay when I use their dialout - it also cost money when you watch my tv (read: electricity). However, in either case, it is of a different class than that of using my car w/o my permission/knowledge. > consider how you would feel if you put a device on the network for your > own use or for a few friends.. that device, let's say, could store ten > 100 mg files.. you only put 5 files in the device.. leaving space for 5 > more.. the device is still totally accessible, but only half available.. > > I come along and discover the device.. I put 4 files onto the device... things > continue unknown to you.. until you try to put 3 more files on the device.. > > is it wrong for me to take advantage of your kindness??? I think it is.. > will you be upset upon finding my files?? I think you will.. I'd be more curious than upset - I'd definitely want to know what was in the files and I might well remove them. > here, someone has stumbled upon a dialout modem or two.. and they've advertised > the fact.. now the provider of the modem is upset/mildly annoyied/or whatever > you want to call it.. and you don't understand his point.. > > you don't walk up and take a public garbage can because it's standing on the > corner open and available.. but you're more than willing to take services > (via modem) that are standing (connectted) around the network.. No one has taken a dialout modem either! Look, take the garbage can analogy - if it is there, you don't feel bad about putting your garbage in it, do you? I look at it this way - if it's a choice between throwing it on their lawn or throwing it in their can, most people would prefer the latter. Note that USING the dialout and using the garbage can do not irreparably damage them - nor do they (if used in moderation) prevent others from using them too. There's a difference between using and taking. > > I would consider a dialout a means to 'enhance communications' :-) > > My point still remains intact. How is a person to know that the > > dialout he or she is using is a 'private resource' and not to be > > used outside that specific university or company? There are many, many > > computers, information services, etc that allow internet users free > > access to anyone who calls. > > are you living in a cave?? no company or university is going to give you > (an outsider) something for nothing.. they're not in business to do that... > if they do, they certainly wouldn't be in business long... Not true - there are plenty of places where you can call up and get a free unix account with ftp, etc. available - not EVERYONE is concerned with making a profit - some are just concerned with not going too far into debt :) In fact, I have been contemplating starting up such a service, recently, as there are no places in Pittsburgh, that I know of, for young kids to get access to the internet w/o having to be affiliated with a university or company (which typically, they aren't). > > obviously, one of the texts you've avoided in your studies of communications > is THE CUCKOO'S EGG by Clifford Stoll... I suggest you read it, then maybe you'l > will realize why the wise man would learn to use the RN message cancellation > feature... I've read Cliff's book - but I don't get your point. ----------------------------------|++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | "He divines remedies against injuries; | "Words are drugs." | | he knows how to turn serious accidents | -Antero Alli | | to his own advantage; whatever does not | | | kill him makes him stronger." | "Culture is for bacteria." | | - Friedrich Nietzsche | - Christopher Hyatt | -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-