Xref: utzoo alt.bbs.internet:524 comp.admin.policy:383 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!ipsun.larc.nasa.gov!jcburt From: jcburt@ipsun.larc.nasa.gov (John Burton) Newsgroups: alt.bbs.internet,comp.admin.policy Subject: Re: 804 dialout Message-ID: <1991Jun10.131909.14977@news.larc.nasa.gov> Date: 10 Jun 91 13:19:09 GMT References: <1991Jun4.143647.4165@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <1991Jun7.050512.29949@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> Sender: news@news.larc.nasa.gov (USENET Network News) Distribution: usa Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA Lines: 64 In article jb3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Allen Boone) writes: >tfabian@falcon.lerc.nasa.gov (Teddy Fabian) writes: >> whether the dialouts in question have a password on them or not isn't >> the issue.. the issue is whether or not it's right for you or me (or any >> of a thousand other people) to use something to their advantage that isn't >> meant for them to use.. > > Actually, within a certain domain, it is the issue of whether or not >access was restricted or people were informed. There is a difference >between a car and a dialout. For instance, if you did use my car >without my permission/knowledge, I'd be worried about getting it back, >who had taken it, etc. On the other hand, if you were using, say, my >television - you were just sitting there watching my tv - and not ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >causing any other difficulty, then I'd have to say that I would mind >much less. It costs money for someone to pay when I use their dialout >- it also cost money when you watch my tv (read: electricity). >However, in either case, it is of a different class than that of using >my car w/o my permission/knowledge. Well, it depends on who *you* are...If you're a friend who've I've invited into my house, fine no problem...If you're a stranger from off the street who comes into my house & starts watching my tv, I'd probably call the police and have you arrested. Perhaps a better analogy would be connecting your tv up to the local cable service, without paying for it...hey, the hardware is already there, there are no locks or security devices, all you have to do is climb a pole or find the box, connect a wire or two, and bingo! you have cable for free...but then again, you probably wouldn't see anything wrong with this either... The basics here are: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". If you use a service, then you *should* pay for that service one way or another. Methods of payment include, but are not limited to, taxes, tuition/student fees, barter, work, or you name it. Basically you are using a service at other peoples expense. Lets see...the original question involved a dialout modem at the University of Virginia...SOMEBODY paid to have it purchased/installed. SOMEBODY pays the phone & electric costs to operate it and SOMEBODY pays to have it maintained. That money comes from someplace, most likely the tuition and student fees for students at UVA, or from state &local taxes in Virginia (state supported school) or from the federal government (grants). Most likely it came from student fees...Your abuse of this service costs the students by reducing the availability of this service and higher operating expenses (read phone bills). Ahh...no password or security you say...perhaps its because at UVa, they are a bit idealistic...they operate under an honor code... they ASSUME that a person is honest and trustworthy and will not lie, cheat or STEAL, and that is exactly what you are doing by using a dialout modem that you did not pay for or previously arrange to use. You are STEALING services belonging to the students and faculty of the Univeristy of Virginia. John +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Burton | | G & A Technical Software | | jcburt@gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov | | jcburt@cs.wm.edu | | | | Disclaimer: Hey, what can I say...These are *my* views, not those | | of anyone else, be they employer, school, or government| +--------------------------------------------------------------------+