Xref: utzoo comp.admin.policy:386 alt.bbs.internet:525 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jb3o+ From: jb3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Allen Boone) Newsgroups: comp.admin.policy,alt.bbs.internet Subject: Re: 804 dialout Message-ID: Date: 10 Jun 91 17:12:33 GMT References: <1991Jun4.143647.4165@rodan.acs.syr.edu> <1991Jun7.050512.29949@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> , <1991Jun10.131909.14977@news.larc.nasa.gov> Distribution: usa Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 67 In-Reply-To: <1991Jun10.131909.14977@news.larc.nasa.gov> jcburt@ipsun.larc.nasa.gov (John Burton) writes: > Well, it depends on who *you* are...If you're a friend who've I've invited > into my house, fine no problem...If you're a stranger from off the street > who comes into my house & starts watching my tv, I'd probably call the police > and have you arrested. Well, if I minded you being there, I'd ask you to leave. If you didn't then I'd call the police and have them escort you away. But see, that's the same thing I'd do in any situation where I have reasonable excuse to be where I am and you don't. In the case of my house, the reasonable excuse is that it belongs (or is rented by) me. But note, that is not an inherrently reasonable excuse (ie., the concept of Immenent Domain) - it's simply one by convention, a convention I feel would be best left OUT of cyber-space. > Perhaps a better analogy would be connecting your tv up to the local > cable service, without paying for it...hey, the hardware is already there, > there are no locks or security devices, all you have to do is climb a pole > or find the box, connect a wire or two, and bingo! you have cable for > free...but then again, you probably wouldn't see anything wrong with this > either... Actually, no I don't. But I don't see anything wrong with paying for the service either. I'd much rather subcontract out to my local cable company - they give me free access to the cable channels I want - I maintain their cable in my neighborhood (including installation, etc.) Sound's like a fair trade to me. Bet they won't go for it. > The basics here are: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". If you use > a service, then you *should* pay for that service one way or another. Methods Why? This is the current setup, but I find the current setup to be counter-intuitive. Please elaborate. > work, or you name it. Basically you are using a service at other peoples > expense. Lets see...the original question involved a dialout modem at the > University of Virginia...SOMEBODY paid to have it purchased/installed. SOMEBODY > pays the phone & electric costs to operate it and SOMEBODY pays to have > it maintained. That money comes from someplace, most likely the tuition > and student fees for students at UVA, or from state &local taxes in Virginia > (state supported school) or from the federal government (grants). Most likely > it came from student fees...Your abuse of this service costs the students > by reducing the availability of this service and higher operating expenses > (read phone bills). Ahh...no password or security you say...perhaps its > because at UVa, they are a bit idealistic...they operate under an honor code... > they ASSUME that a person is honest and trustworthy and will not lie, cheat > or STEAL, and that is exactly what you are doing by using a dialout modem > that you did not pay for or previously arrange to use. You are STEALING > services belonging to the students and faculty of the Univeristy of Virginia. First, this is a fairly accurate presentation of the current situation - but again, it need not be this way. We simply (as a society) have chosen to go with this model. Obviously, the model is less than perfect. Time to get a better model. Better to have a national-lottery, rather than an income tax. Better to have a per-service price on social programs, etc. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Follow-ups to some other bboard please. ----------------------------------|++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | "He divines remedies against injuries; | "Words are drugs." | | he knows how to turn serious accidents | -Antero Alli | | to his own advantage; whatever does not | | | kill him makes him stronger." | "Culture is for bacteria." | | - Friedrich Nietzsche | - Christopher Hyatt | -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-