Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!tate!tomr
From: tomr@dbase.A-T.COM (Tom Rombouts)
Newsgroups: comp.databases
Subject: Re: The Cult of Clipper (was: Re: PC Magazine skipped Clipper...)
Message-ID: <1991Jun7.220945.18253@dbase.A-T.COM>
Date: 7 Jun 91 22:09:45 GMT
References: <1991May21.213203.27689@pegasus.com> <1991May29.203231.26012@dbase.A-T.COM> <1991Jun5.112441.4573@pegasus.com>
Organization: Ashton-Tate, Inc.
Lines: 64
Nntp-Posting-Host: dbase

In article <1991Jun5.112441.4573@pegasus.com> tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:
>In article <1991May29.203231.26012@dbase.A-T.COM> awd@dbase.A-T.COM (Alastair Dallas) writes:
>
><a number of things trying to make Tom Rombouts statements less inflammatory
> and mine moreso, takes a shot at Larry Heimendinger, tells me to get off of
> my high horse and then tells everybody that they should stop it>

  [ summary deleted ]

>Your turn to blame me for the ills of world... don't forget to twist the
>stories around and end with an appeal for dignity.  It must be time for
>Rombouts to come out swinging again since he's had a rest while you pinch
>hit.

O.K., here I am.  My apologies if comp.databases is becoming more like
xbase.nitpicking....

I stand by my original post, which to me, was _not_ inflammatory.
Here are the main points as I recall them:

1.  Language features, to the actual user, are only as good as
their implementation.

2.  Clipper has moved away from the dBASE/xBASE "standard" and
is a product for advanced users.

3.  Clipper is currently not available on platforms such as
UNIX or the Macintosh.  (This by no means implies it is not 
a great DOS product.)

4.  Debates about Clipper vs. FoxPro are really comparing two 
different things.

Regarding specific personalities in the PC software world, let
me make the following statement and see what happens:

  IMHO, Larry Heimendinger and Ed Esber have little in common with 
  Bill Gates, Phillipe Kahn or Dave Fulton.

Finally, I acknowledge your world-reknowned expertise in Clipper,
Tom, but claiming you are at least equal to the world's best
FoxPro developer, and repeatedly listing various credits and
accomplishments as if The Net were some sort of job interview
forum (maybe it is - I don't know) strikes me as slightly humorous.

I have had the privilege to work in a PC software R&D group for the 
last two years, and have learned at least the following two things:
1.  (Paraphrasing various people from other fields:)  The more I
learn, the more I realize I don't know.  2.  Dealing with people
turns out to be far more critical than dealing with things.

In summary, I feel I and other 'Taters in this group are fairly
objective toward PC DBMS products.  (btw, correct me if I am wrong,
but I can not recall ever seeing a posting here from a current
Nantucket or Fox Software employee.  Borland stopped posting here
about a year ago, if I recall correctly.)  

I think you may have some sort of virtual chip on your shoulder
Tom, and because I (or others) are currently employed at Ashton-Tate
you have read things into postings that are not there.


Tom Rombouts  Torrance 'Tater  tomr@ashtate.A-T.com