Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!aunro!atha!lsuc!jimomura From: jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) Newsgroups: comp.sys.handhelds Subject: Re: Portfolio, HP-95, M-100 & Message-ID: <1991Jun10.131304.6645@lsuc.on.ca> Date: 10 Jun 91 13:13:04 GMT References: <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> <12951@uwm.edu> Organization: Consultant, Toronto Lines: 159 In article <12951@uwm.edu> anthony@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes: >In article <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: > >>there are a number of CC/CPD capable products on the market by >>Casio, Sharp and Texas Instruments. > >What machine does TI sell? I haven't heard of it before. TI has the PS-6200 which is similar to a Casio SF-4000 but with data transfer capability with computers, and also the PS-6600 which is their 64K "organizer" which is similar to a Casio SF-7500 BOSS. For the record, I was going to buy a TI PS-6600 but the store owner offered me the Portfolio for *less* than a Casio SF-9000 (a bit more than the Casio SF-7500 really). He knew I'll just *have* to buy it at that price. :-) >>The first generation Casios were shirt-pocket size. The latest >>64K size ones are still pants-pocket/jacket-pocket size and >>are just about the largest practical size for most people. > >Well, my Psion Organiser II does fit in my shirt pocket at >about 1x3x5 and it can hold two 256K RAM paks. Admitably >it's a bit large, perhaps too large for some people. I guess for the record, the Casio SF-4000 is advertised as 5" * 2 7/8" * 1/2". I think the TI that I was going to buy was about 5.5" * 3" * 3/4". I don't have accurate figures, but that's what it looks like -- just a bit bigger than the 32K "organizers". >> The Portfolio and the 95LX are simple too big and too >>*heavy*. most people are simply not going to use them for this > >For me, these two machines are larger than I might want to carry >around. I'd have to try them out for a week to know. But the larger I already know. My Sharp PC-1500 was about the size of the Portfolio and 95LX. That's why I mentioned it. "Deja vu" in the extreme. The memory size of Sharp was enough to do useful things, but the limits were the single line display (which was livable actually) and the size which simply made it a "desktop and briefcase" unit. You could get a student to carry it around, but students'll carry *anything* if you can convince them they'll get better marks (or if it looks cool ;-). >>really need a good keyboard. The idea that you're going to dink >>around on those tiny arrow keys and edit a letter on an airplane >>shows a person who doesn't know the value of time. Better > >I agree, word processing is difficult with such a small system. But a >pocket sized system is the only one that I can carry *everywhere*. It Right, but this isn't pocket size. :-) Hey, if you're willing to carry something in your hand, like a lady's "clutch purse", which is close to the size of these things, then a Toshiba T-1000 is in the same ballpark. So is the Model-100 of course. >is little larger than the small notebook, calender, pen, nevermind a >calculator that I used to carry around. The qwerty keyboard is not the >ultimate in keyboard input. The only reason it exists at all is >because it's a standard. I've found I can type reasonalbly on a rather >small 6x6 key, alphabetic keyboard, and with only one hand, leaving the >other to hold the machine. When I know I'll want to do some text >intesive work, I'll drag my MS-DOS laptop along (like taking notes >in class, or meetings). Ahah! A student! I *knew* it! Like I said, you can get a student to carry just about anything . . . . :-) The Portfolio and 95LX are advertised as "Executive" tools, not studentware. When you get out into the work world, you'll find that you shed a lot of bulk. Strangely, this is compensated for by the acquisition of a tie in many cases. I think the tie is to cut off the blook (blood) from reaching the brain, compensating for the extra available oxygen not used by the muscles carrying all the bulk the student carries. I'm not sure of this though. >> As for those little notes they show in the ads to your >>secretary and such, well, a little sheet of paper is still more >>practical. Download it to her computer? How 'bout just handing >>her the note? > >How about just emailing it? One the uses for small machines like these >are as portable terminals. I can call in from anywhere there is a A 6 - 10 word note? Well, if you're not in your office to hand her the note, why not just call her and tell her (or him -- more male secretaries are showing up again, which is a good sign). If your office is particularly high tech, then it could be voice mail, but usually you can reach your secretary in a good office. Oh, you'll find some people will use them as portable terminals. But those people could usually use a notebook computer instead, which is still easier. >phone and exchange messages. Certainly they make less sense if you're >standing next to a person, unless their handheld is readily compatible >with yours. There are organizations where a specific handheld is used >widely. Those that don't have a use for a handheld, have devices to >read the removable RAM cards the handhelds use. Imagine thinking of a >proposal and working on it spontaneously while at lunch, then handing a >secretary a RAM card with a spreadsheet and accompanying document. Uh, right. Imagine it all you want. When you get out in the work world, you'll find that lunch is not a time you want to do anything that involved. Lunch is, at most, a time to relax and maybe reschedule things a bit. >This can be done right now with an Atari Portfolio, and probably has >been done. > >> As I said, the Portfolio sales are apparently dropping as >>people realize that these are not really useful for much. HP-95LX's >>aren't any better. The keyboard is closer to my Sharp PC-1500 >>which makes it even less practical than the Portfolio for WPS >>functions. The extra memory? It's pretty worthless really. >>It doesn't help the CC/CPD functions (64K is far more than enough >>for most people). I could not believe the comment by Andrews & > >I've typed in over 128K of data into my handheld, and I wish I could >store all of it. Unfortunatly RAM for any handheld is still quite >expensive. With more storage I would transfer material from other >sources, such as documentation. > >>Reinhardt in May 1991's Byte Magazine. They're big "insight" into >>these machines was that the Portfolio's 128K RAM was "not enough >>to run 1-2-3 ... ". They seemed not to know that the Portfolio >>comes with a 1-2-3 compatible spreadsheet in ROM. I'm not on > >When it comes to specialty machines like these, the "experts" don't >seem to know much. They might have been refering to the monster spread >sheets that take up 2MB of EMS, although I don't know how many people >actually make them that big. Oh no, "experts" *do* know a lot. What I couldn't believe was that they seemed to go out of their way to compare it to the Portfolio and *then* they made this incredibly inept observation specifically because they felt it was *significant*. >>sell. First, I'd like to have a Forth-like language. Actually, >There is a forth for the Portfolio available, it's on >atari.archive.engin.umich.edu. There's a mail server for this >site too, I think. If you really want a sort of forth like machine, >check out the HP-48SX. Well the point is to put it in ROM, not RAM. ROM doesn't suck power when the unit is off. At least it shouldn't if it's well designed. And it leaves RAM for data, which is how something as small as 128K can be useful. These are the lessons from the Model 100 and the Sharp things I've owned. But the Sharp PC-1500 was the real education. It had the software available really, it was just the wrong size for everything. It was just about the same size as the 95LX. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura