Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflorida!gatech!prism!ccoprmd
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: ASSORTED FLAMES (was re: best position for pregnancy)
Message-ID: <30920@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: 8 Jun 91 18:12:03 GMT
References: <1991Jun7.140903.11829@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains
Lines: 84

In article <1991Jun7.140903.11829@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> cabp10@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Theora Jones, In Person!) writes:

>[D]on't you find it slightly embarrasing that your #1 ally at the UN for the
>last forty years, ally in WWII and the first country to offer substantial help
>in Operation Desert Storm, as well as one of the main supporters of NATO (which
>if you will remember is not a "keep europe safe" campaign, but a first line
>defence for you people) would have to sedntheir first person into space, not
>with our allies that we have fought beside, but with the very country that we
>have been preparing to fight against for the last X years ???????

The British lady who went up to Mir went courtesy of a private organization 
that funded from private contributions, not from the government.  As such, 
I (and the U.S. government, and everyone else) couldn't care less who she 
flys with or why.  

NATO isn't a 'keep Europe safe' project?  Of course it is.  Granted, it is 
in our best interestes that Western Europe (and the %#$&*( French, too)
remain free, but that doesn't change the fact that it keeps you guys out 
of trouble.  We've gotten enough Americans killed because of European 
wars in the past; a successful (as NATO has been) deterrent program can be
valued in lives, not just dollars.

As far as the U.S. goes, we could just hole up here behind our oceans and
not worry about the rest of the world...but we're a buch of nice people and 
put our asses on the line to keep the rest of you free.


> Don't you think that the penny pinching and shi* quality planning of congress
> and NASA (respectively) is just ever so slightly nauseating, when we ( as part
>of ESA ) have had (for example) our part of the freedom space station ready to
>roll for quite a time now. I remember a science program "tommorow's world"
>talking about it as far back as 1982 !!!

The Columbus module is sitting in a hangar, ready to go up?  And Hermes 
(justified in part as a space station resupply vehicle) is sitting on an 
Ariane, ready to launch?  I think not.

Besides, the space station project was started up in 1984...I'd be impressed
if you had the module ready to go in 1982.

>This is really just distilled flame, which I have been collecting up for the
>last while.... I understand that, as I am not a US taxpayer, I can't really
>comment on how congress spends it's budget, but there has been a lot of talk
>over here of "the peace dividend".... some of that would help get some of the
>great projects back on their feet..... (freedom, mars, moon base etc)

You're more than welcome to comment on U.S. policy and policymaking, and as 
long as Ted Kaldis doesn't subscribe to this newsgroup I doubt anyone is 
going to complain.  I might question the validity of your comments, though, 
since a lot of what you said above was in error...

As far as the peace dividend goes, be patient.  I don't know what Great 
Britain is planning, but we're reducing our armed forces considerably
by 1995, particularly in Europe.  Should be interesting, seeing how 
Europe reacts to a German-dominated continent...I'll just hope that the 
remaining American presence keeps you out of trouble.

>pps> Before you flame, consider this. do you know what the russians have been
>doing on Mir? they have been growing silicon crystals. Not just little
>crystals, that scientists can cut up and say "yes, it's definetly silicon", but
>crystals that can be used by the semiconductor industry. >VERY VERY VERY< high
>quality crystals. ata arate of one per flight. when you add this to the fact
>that the russians are offering a flight opportunity to >ANYONE< who can come up
>with the hard cash, you will see that the russian space program (or at least
>the manned section of it) has almost payed for itself, and will soon start to
>make a profit.

Silicon crystals?  Nice, but it's not going to pay for anything.  Part of the 
problem is that in a centrally-planned and controlled economy such as the
Soviet Union, there is no real measure of 'cost', 'profit', or 'loss'.  Since
rubles are worth nothing on the international market, and most other currencies
are, the Soviets can be considered as making a profit every time they do 
*anything* for a foreign customer that nets foreign currency.  Should be fun
seeing what happens when the Soviets finally get a real economy, where cost
and profit can be measured in real terms.

>Reply please. I look forward to hearing from you.

Been a pleasure. :-)
-- 
Matthew DeLuca                   
Georgia Institute of Technology      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their
Office of Information Technology      P.O. box."  - Zebadiah Carter,
Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu    _The Number of the Beast_