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From: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Sexism vs. Men's Oppression
Message-ID: <676257331@lear.cs.duke.edu>
Date: 7 Jun 91 01:15:32 GMT
References: 76012995@lear.cs.duke.edu> <1991Jun5.141436.1@dev8a.mdcbbs.com>
Sender: news@aero.org
Organization: The Immoral Minority
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Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org
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Originator: nadel@aerospace.aero.org



# For time being I point out problems I see and talk about possible
# solutions.  The idea is to prepare the tools/ideas/goals for a
# real equal rights movement, and to wait for the next opportunity
# to come.

In article <1991Jun5.141436.1@dev8a.mdcbbs.com> writes:

>Sounds like a cop-out to me. In Vietnam (your example) nobody "gave"
>anyone the opportunity to make change. There were enough people with the
>courage to get off of their duffs to MAKE it happen!

In the Vietnam war the Military-Industrial-Complex made many mistakes,
gave promises it could not keep and was in a desperate need to save
its ass.  It's pretty easy to win against an opponent that just tries
to survive, if you just don't make too many mistakes.

Compare the Vietnam era demonstrators to the demonstrators we saw
on TV six months ago.  They were *fully* prepared to the previous
war with their predictions about "20,000 dead" and how California
would become black if the Kuwaiti oil fields would burn.

Some people don't realize that methods that can work when you go down 
the hill with a back wind don't work too well in different conditions...

E.g the feminists who got, in Congress, 90% support for the ERA in 
the early 70's, but lost the fight in the early 80's have never 
understood this simple rule, but the rule still exists.

>Talk is cheap. The price of action is much greater. But actions are
>what shape the world.

The CO of the last war pay a similar price to the CO 
of the Vietnam war, but they make no real difference...

>It may serve a purpose to "point out problems I see", but there are
>already too many umpires. We need more people to actually carry the
>damn ball down the field!

If you carry the ball in the opposite way then you might feel that you
"do something," and be very happy about yourself, but somewhere down
the road you are going to lose, big.

>\\\\    Michael Rivero      | "I drank WHAT!" | "I favor population      |

Hillel                                        gazit@cs.duke.edu

"Not just effort need to be expended. The right effort need to be expended."
                                                   -- d'baba Duane M. Hentrich