Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: math1h3@JANE.UH.EDU (David H. Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The New Birth Message-ID: Date: 9 Jun 91 18:50:06 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston Lines: 114 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes: >What The New Birth Is Not >1. It is not religion. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Nicodemus was a Pharisee, a very strict religionist. He >celebrated the Passover, paid tithes, said prayers, brought >sacrifices, tried to keep the law. And it was to HIM the Lord >Jesus said, "Ye must be born again." Law keeping, going to >church, being religious, joining a church, being baptized, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [deletion]...will not save you. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed, that being 'born again' is not just religion. But Jesus said "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of *water* and the Spirit". And Peter said, "this water symbolizes baptism *which now saves you* ". (1 Peter 3:21) And Paul wrote: "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5) Finally Paul wrote in Colossians 2:11,12, "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by men but with the circumcision *done by Christ*, having been buried with him *in baptism* and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead." So I conclude: 1. Baptism is not just an empty sign, but an act of God. 2. God saves us through Baptism by the power of his Word. 3. Baptism works renewal/regeneration/rebirth in us. 4. This renewal/regeneration/rebirth is precisely what Christ meant by 'being born again.' >What The New Birth Is >[deletions] > Someone has said that the new birth is not something that needs >to be explained, but to be experienced. If you have not had the >experience, the explanation would do you no good, and if you have >had the experience, you don't need the explanation. You seem to be saying that the Holy Scriptures are NOT able to make us wise for salvation, that our knowledge of God comes partly from 'experience', and not 'Sola Scriptura'. Is that really what you want to say? >2. It is the work of God by which a poor, lost, guilty, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >hell-deserving sinner who receives the Lord Jesus receives a new >nature, becomes a child of God and begins a new life. It is a >second birth, a spiritual birth. Agreed. But does not Paul say in Romans 7 that the sinful nature remains with us, and that our new self is at war with the sinful nature? > When you are born again you begin living a new life. That is >what happened when you were born the first time, you began living >a life you had never lived before. You made a profession of >salvation, but was there any difference in your life after that? >Don't rest in a shallow profession. Don't rather, trust in your own works, or anything that you DO. Put your trust in Jesus Christ, your Savior. > Be sure you are born again. There may be >a more spectacular change in the life of one who is a drunken, >railing blasphemer, but even in you who have not been down deep ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >in sin, there is bound to be a change when you are born again. ^^^^^^ Really this is offensive. Aren't we all deep down in sin? >There will be a new attitude towards the Lord Jesus Christ, His >Word, His people, and a new attitude towards prayer. Should a person condemn his own faith because he does not experience this? I think you are confusing justification with sanctification. We are declared righteous, not because of anything we do, but because the Son of God became one of us, lived a perfect life, yet died on the cross for our sins. His resurrection showed us God's verdict of 'not guilty' on the entire human race. We accept that verdict through faith, and even that is a gift of God. But I think you are making faith/conversion/rebirth a work of the sinner--whether you realize it or not. The new self is born in the sinner at conversion/baptism. Yet even in adults, it starts as an infant. So Peter wrote: "Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good." (1 Peter 2:2). Yet we ought to grow up in our faith: "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." --Hebrews 5:11-14 If someone confesses faith in Jesus Christ, are we to question whether they 'feel' born again? We cannot judge people's hearts, only God can do that. (cf. the parable of weeds in the wheat). Shouldn't we rather simply encourage them to continue in that faith, and to feed their faith with the Word of God and the Lord's Supper? David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding" --Proverbs 3:5 My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston.