Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: tblake@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Tom Blake) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Bible: What is the Truth? Message-ID: Date: 9 Jun 91 19:05:38 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: SUNY Binghamton Lines: 141 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , 6600wood@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Joseph Wood) writes: |>* This is a serious question so please don't flame me for it * |> |>For many years I have been a person who has wanted to find God |>but has been unable to reconcile the differences and difficulties |>in the various Christian denominations. Knowing my struggles, a very |>good friend of mine prayed for me for over a year. One day when |>talking with me things came to a head and we prayed together. |>For weeks after that time I was in a sort of daze. I read the bible |>constantly and tried to ask questions of my christian friends |>whenever possible. Unfortunately, my bliss did not last long. |>I have always been of a sort of logical bent. I am one of those |>people that goes to movies and immediately notices what is wrong |>or foolish in them. This unfortunately is my problem. Hi Joe, Puzzling, isn't it!? I'm sort of a logical bent myself. As such, I have come at my faith with a logical approach. For a number of years I said "I believe more in the Judeo-Christian ethos than in the religion itself." (I'm not sure exactly where I stand on that one nowadays, my faith has grown quite a bit.) I found myself with a few basic truths: 1. I agreed with the teachings of Jesus as I understood them. 2. I believed that if everyone aimed to follow the teachings of Jesus that the world would be a better place to live in. 3. I believed that there was more to my being than my science teachers had taught me about. (I had simply had too many "unexplainable" experiences to ignore them.) One of the crucial points in my journey was just before I was to perform Godspell. I was going to be doing the lead role, and in the name of "character development", I pulled out my under-used Bible, and read the Gospels. I found I agreed still more with Jesus. I figured, either Jesus said the things he said, (and I agreed with Jesus), or the Gospel authors had put words in his mouth, and I agreed with the authors. From the Gospels I went on to Acts and Romans. I found I also agreed with what I took to be Paul's message of love and acceptance. To this day, these are the books I am most familiar with in the Bible. I added other basic truths: 4. The best way to promote any "philosophy" is through an organized effort. 5. There already exists an organization dedicated to the promotion of the "philosophy" (if you will) taught by Jesus. (The Church). 6. Therefore, if I was going to work to further this "philosophy" it was only logical that I do it through "The Church". Now, the problems arise, my understanding of the Gospels varies from that of other members of the church! I became involved in staffing retreats for a Roman Catholic youth ministry, "Teen Seminar". A lot of people were confused, I'm United Methodist, how could I staff a retreat for a Roman Catholic confirmation class? (The priest in charge put it like this, "We don't try to teach them to be good Catholics, we try to teach them to be good Christians!") I found a lot of misunderstandings between Roman Catholics and Protestants, (frankly, there are some teachings of the RCC which I simply cannot accept, I could not in good conscience join the RCC at this time), but even though we have our differences, I believe we are working for the same goals. I added more basic truths: 7. "The Church" wastes far too much effort fighting itself, this effort would be much better employed working for unity, not striving to prevent it. 8. "The Church" will probably never agree on doctrine, any unification of the church must happen in spite of doctrine, not because of it. But, if I disagree with my fellow Christians, who is right? We can't both be right, (can we?) Well, maybe. Romans 14:1-4 Welcome the person who is weak in faith, but do not argue with him about his personal opinions. 2 One person's faith allows him to eat anything, but the person who is weak in the faith eats only vegetables. 3 The person who will eat anything is not to despise the one who doesn't; while the one who eats only vegetables is not to pass judgement on the one who will eat anything; for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of someone else? It is his own Master who will decide whether he succeeds or fails. And he will succeed, because the Lord is able to make him succeed. (TEV) Let's look at it this way, my fellow Christian is following a path to Jesus, just as I am. Our paths are different, if we fight against each other neither one of us will progress, but if we help each other to follow our individual paths, we can both progress further than we could on our own. And, just because I have been given this path to follow, I should not assume that it is the right path for my brother or sister, "One blind man cannot lead another one; if he does, both of them will fall into a ditch." (Luke 6:39 [TEV]) I too see inconsitancies, I see cases when it seems clear to me that "The Church" is at variance with the teachings of Jesus. For instance, I personally don't feel comfortable with the typical "Unison Prayer". These tend to be rather long, and use words which the participants would not use, and whose meanings they may even not be sure of. So, do I start "The Church of No Unison Prayers"? No, I simply don't recite the prayer if I feel uncomfortable. Do I tell others not to pray in unison? No, because many people feel that a unison prayer gives them the words to say what they wanted to say, but felt they couldn't express. For them *it is prayer*! For me it is not, and if I were to pretend to pray, then I would only be doing it to be heard by my fellow worshipers, so it would be wrong for me to do so. Doctrine can lead to division. If a church states that "This Church believes that all of our lives are predestined by God." A bunch of people may say, "well that's silly! We'll form a new church! This one doesn't believe that!" The key in my mind is not whether our beliefs are identical or not, but whether they are compatible or not. If you personally believe that you should "do unto others, before they do unto you", then I think we have a serious problem. We are working against each other. But if you feel for instance that you must worship on Saturday, rather than Sunday, that's fine. I won't try to get you to give up your Sabbath worship, if you invite me, I'll even join you, just don't try to tell me that my worship is invalid because I do it on the wrong day. Joe, don't bother looking for an airtight logical proof. You're not going to find it. What if God spoke to you, (aloud). What would it prove? (You might have imagined it.) In your great desire to believe in a God, you're mind may have provided you one. I believe God has spoken to you, and continues to speak to you. If you will be still, and quiet, you may hear him. God has never provided me with absolute logical proofs, but he has provided me with proofs. The key is, each one of these proofs requires a certain requisite faith, just as Geometry proofs all eventually boil down to certain unproven postulates. Okay Joe, I wasn't silent. I hope what I've said may have helped in some way. If it has, then give the glory to God. If it hasn't then I accept all blame. In either case, my employer had nothing to do with it. Tom Blake SUNY-Binghamton