Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mejicovs@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: the Sabbath Message-ID: Date: 11 Jun 91 03:15:13 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 124 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu [In a discussion with Tom Blake, James (mejicovs) said >I am converting to Judaism, so I am *obliged* to disregard a certain law. which confused both Tom and me. --clh] According to Orthodox Judaism, a Gentile is obliged to *not* keep the Sabbath as per two verses that go like this "day and night they shall not rest" referring to Gentiles and "the children of Israel should guard the Sabbath and keep it". [James] >Besides that you'd have to point me to a specific law you think I might >be disregarding... [Tom] >(* Sigh *) I have given examples before of Old Testament laws/commands >which many people choose to dis-regard. > >Here's a few interesting ones... > >Exodus 21:15-17 > 15 "Whoever hits his father or his mother is to be put to death. > 16 "Whoever kidnaps a man, either to sell him or to keep him as a slave, >is to be put to death. > 17 "Whoever curses his father or his mother is to be put to death. > (TEV) All of these are in Tractate Sanhedrin of the Talmud. The Orthodox position on laws of this nature is to define exactly the cases that are involved. Is accidental hitting implied? How about bumping? How important is intent? These are all questions that are defined further by the Oral Law (Talmud) so that they can apply to specific instances. In most of these cases the Oral Law applies the penalty of death, etc. to one instance of this crime. Other, lesser cases, are given lesser punishment depending on the case. >Exodus 22:9 > 9 "In every case of a dispute about property, whether it involves cattle, >donkeys, sheep, clothing, or any other lost object, the two men claiming >the property shall be taken to the place of worship. The one whom God >declares to be guilty shall pay double to the other man. (TEV) What you have written as the house of worship is written as judges in my KJV translation of Exodus. To respond to that, rather than your translation - today there is no Sanhedrin. If there was a Sanhedrin appointed then this case would have to be dealt with but the point is moot in our current society. >Leviticus 14:33-53 > (Okay, I'm not gonna type the whole thing, it's about what to do in the >case of mildew in a house.) Haha - what you have written here as mildew is called "a plague of leprosy". We are unsure what this was, although it was probably something along the order of a plague that spreads by contact with objects. If you are willing to identify this plague I'll be quite happy to follow all the Biblical commandments regarding this case. >Leviticus 15:16-18 > 16 When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body, >and he remains unclean until evening. 17 Anything made of cloth or >leather on which the semen falls must be washed, and it remains unclean >until evening. 18 After sexual intercourse both the man and the woman >must take a bath, and they remain unclean until evening. (TEV) The general stance of many Orthodox on the entire body of law surrounding uncleanliness (a whole tractate in the Talmud) is that today everyone is ritually unclean because there is no Temple and no red heiffer to be purified by. Some Orthodox are strict on this matter and follow the law as you have written it. It doesn't yet apply to me as I follow the Orthodox view that masturbation is a waste of seed and I am not married, therefore I do not have sex. >Leviticus 17:10-12 > 10 If any Israelite or any foreigner living in the community eats >meat with blood still in it, the Lord will turn against him and no longer >consider him one of his people. 11 The life of every living thing is in >the blood, and that is why the Lord has commanded that all blood be >poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins. Blood, which is >life, takes away sins. 12 That is why the Lord has told the people of >Israel that neither they nor any foreigner living among them shall eat >any meat with blood still in it. (TEV) This is kosher law and the reason that Jews slaughter their meat in a special way and salt it and soak it twice. The reference to a stranger is the Hebrew word ger and is generally taken to mean one who chooses to convert. I follow laws of kashrut very strictly. >Leviticus 19:19 > 19 "Obey my commands. Do not crossbreed domestic animals. Do not >plant two kinds of seed in the same field. Do not wear clotes made >of two kinds of material. (TEV) The two kinds of material are wool and linen. Orthodox Jews do not wear clothing that contains both of these in it. Orthodox Jews also do not crossbreed animals or vegetables, as per the biblical commandment. However, we are allowed to eat crossbreeds once they have been produced by non-Jews (love those nectarines!). >Well, I was just quickly scanning through, looking for laws. If you >take the time, I'm certain you can find a number of interesting laws. >(Are you keeping all of them?) I get the impression, that a number >of people know how to find the laws they want to hold others to, but >never seem to find the ones which they don't wish to be held to. Sorry this took as long as it did. This was all directly off the top of my head. Do you have anything else you would like me to address? >[It seems like this might be better aimed at Christians who cite the >Law in support of the Sabbath or whatever, but who don't keep the >kosher laws, etc. Rather that at Orthodox Jews?? --clh] I think the justification of these people is that they can pick and choose because they do accept that Jesus has `freed' them from the law. Therefore, observance becomes a cultural, do-what's-fun approach rather than a serious effort to keep the law. James mejicovs@eniac.seas.upenn.edu [Based on previous discussions here I think I can confidently say that -- whatever problems I have figuring out how people decide which parts of the law to keep and which not -- it is intended as a serious effort to follow God's commands. --clh]