Path: utzoo!telecom-request Date: Sat, 15 Jun 91 11:54:24 -0400 From: Mike Godwin Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: Re: Well Len, Was it Worth a Prison Term? Message-ID: Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation Sender: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Approved: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 11, Issue 459, Message 1 of 5 Lines: 170 I have to say that in all the postings I have ever seen Pat Townson write, his posting about Len Rose is the most shameful and morally indefensible. I find it incredibly ironic that Townson, after all this time, seems to have so little sense of what Len Rose actually *did* and of what he didn't do. Let's detail some of Pat's many, many factual and moral errors: In article telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator) writes: > The Len Rose saga came to an end this past week when a federal judge > considered the circumstances involved and chose to impose punishment > by placing Len in the custody of the Attorney General of the United > States, or his authorized representative for a period of one year. The judge didn't decide to give Rose a year in prison. That was a product of the plea agreement between the government and Rose's attorney. > Speaking of the kids, I wonder if Len has explained all this to them > yet. I wonder if they know, or are old enough to understand their dad > is going to prison, and why ... "Dear children, "Your father is going to prison because he possessed and transmitted unlicensed source code. Hundreds of other Unix consultants have done the same thing, but I was targeted because I wrote an article for {Phrack Magazine} about how to modify login.c for hacking purposes, and that article, while never published, was found in a search of Craig Neidorf's room. The prosecutor and the phone company tried to put Neidorf into prison, but when their distortions came to light they dropped the case. They searched my system for the same E911 document, but when they didn't find it, they decided to find something else to prosecute me for -- namely, the unlicensed Unix source code. "Children, lots of people, including Patrick Townson, will call me a hacker and say I got convicted because of breakins into other people's computers. Patrick Townson lies if he says this. I never broke in to anyone's computer. I was always given access to systems by sysadmins who were authorized to give me that access. "My children, as I spend that time in prison, be aware that some people will, without shame, distort the facts of my case in order to use me as a cheap moral lesson. If you must hate them, don't hate them because of what they say, but because they have chosen to be hypocritical. Hate them because they have friends who possess unlicensed source code, but they've never reported those friends to the U.S. Attorney. Hate them because they make blanket condemnations without bothering to learn the facts." > I wonder if it was all worth it ... if Len had it to do over again if > he would do the same things he did before, or if he might consider the > consequences more carefully. Have you asked this question of all Unix consultants who possess unlicensed source code, Pat? No, I didn't think so. > If you don't think (c) is still possible, consider the recent thread > in comp.org.eff.talk -- yes, I know, *where else* !! -- on the student > who got suspended from school for two quarters after downloading and > distributing the system password file on the machine he had been > entrusted to use. The fact that the debate could go on endlessly for > message after message actually questioning what, if anything the chap > did wrong tells us plenty about the mentality and 'social respsonsi- > bility' of EFF devotees, but that is a whole new topic in itself. This is a particularly contemptible slam at EFF, which is as concerned with your rights as it is of those who are self-proclaimed hackers. EFF has never approved of unauthorized computer intrusion, and we have never doubted that the Georgia student who distributed the password file was wrong to do so. Pat, up until this point, I regarded you as something of a friend. I've spoken to you on the phone, asked for your help, and been willing to offer mine. But this whole paragraph about "EFF devotees" convinces me that you really have no moral center, and no ability to distinguish between what some people write and what other people believe. I would never dream of attributing every opinion posted in your newsgroup to "comp.dcom.telecom devotees." Of course, that's because I actually consider the moral consequences of labelling people. > The point is, some of us are simply getting very tired of the > break-ins, the fraudulent messages, the fact that in order to telnet > to a different site we can no longer do so direct from dialup servers > without a lot of rig-a-ma-role because computer (ab)users have stolen > all the trust which used to exist between sites, and the increasing > scarcity of 'guest' accounts on various sites because the sysadmins > are tired of being eaten alive with fraudulent and destructive usage. Len Rose never did a breakin, and never took any action that limited the use of telnet or guest accounts. Neither has EFF. > Users had better wise up to one fact: the federal government is going > to continue to crack down on abusers of the net and this media. And > please, none of your hysterical freedom of speech arguments in my > mail, thank you. No one gives an iota what you write about, but when > you get your hands in the password file, rip off root or wheel > accounts, run programs deceptive to other users designed to rip off > their accounts also and generally behave like a two-bit burglar or > con-artist, expect to get treated like one when you get caught. Who is the "you" in this paragraph, Pat? EFF? You were just talking about EFF. Has anyone at EFF *ever* said that "freedom of speech" encompasses breakins? No. It is your contemptible distortion to attribute that view to us. > And you *will* get caught. Then you can go sit and commiserate with > Len Rose. If Len Rose has half the brain I think he has, he will > come out of the penitentiary a better person than when he went in. > The penitentiary can be, and frequently is a therapeutic experience, > at least for the people who think about what it was that caused them > to get there in the first place. What do you think caused Len Rose to get there, Pat? > I feel very sorry about what has happened to Len Rose. This seems two-faced after you've spent a whole posting gloating about it. > I feel worse about the circumstances his wife and children are in. > But the socially irresponsible behavior (which some people who call > themselves 'socially responsible' seem to condone or wink at) has to > stop. Now. First of all, there is no statute outlawing "social irresponsibility." If there were, you would have committed a felony with your distortions in this posting. > A US Attorney involved in prosecuting computer crime once said, "users > need an example when they log in of what to expect when they screw up > while on line ..." Indeed we do ... and Len Rose will serve as such. Is the U.S. Attorney Bill Cook, Pat? The AUSA who cost Craig Neidorf $100,000 because he didn't know that the E911 document was not a program, and that the information in it was publicly available and not a trade secret? Bill Cook has never been held accountable for what he did to Craig Neidorf. > And a knowledgeable sysadmin who is quietly cooperating with the > government tells me a federal grand jury is to returning > another cycle of indictments. Need I say more? Yes, you need to say more. This time around there are forces in the community that, unlike you, will act to keep both the government and the phone companies honest. > So Len, *was* it all worth it? Len no doubt thanks you for the charity you have shown him in kicking him when he is down. Was it worth it, Pat, to take still another slam at Len, and to alienate people who are working to preserve *your* rights in the process? Mike Godwin, mnemonic@eff.org (617) 864-1550 EFF, Cambridge, MA