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From: kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: MacIIci vs. NeXT station?
Message-ID: <6enI027m08We01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Date: 14 Jun 91 13:39:17 GMT
References: <1208@chem.ucsd.EDU> <28570CC5.528@ics.uci.edu> <6029@pbhyb.PacBell.COM>
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In article <6029@pbhyb.PacBell.COM> rkmossm@PacBell.COM (Richard Mossman) writes:
>In article <28570CC5.528@ics.uci.edu> kanderso@ics.uci.edu (Ken Anderson) writes:
>Wait a minute; a little touchy aren't we?
>
>I think Darin was asking a valid question, not trying start a flame war, and
>your response was more inflammatory than his question.
>
>I too would like to know why I should drop $13,000 on a Mac IIci system to 
>use as the center piece to my new video editing suite when I can do the same
>things with an Amiga or Next-based system for about $5000-6000?  I'm

The NeXT will need Digital Eyes and more hardrive space.  So that is
$900 for the additional video capability and $1200 for an additional
300Mb harddrive, total $7100, but still cheaper than $13000.

Also remember the NeXT is a hell of a lot faster than any Mac, Amiga, or
Atari anything.

>deliberately not including the cost of software, because I will be buying
>new software for whichever system I buy.
>
>What's really funny is hearing the salesperson at the local Mac store 
>telling me I'd be better off with the Next for this application. I'm sure
>his profit margin is probably as high or higher on the Mac than it is for the
>Next.
>

I don't know.  Lets say he's selling a NeXTstation for $5000.  He is not
paying more than I would pay as a student.  The $5000 is for a bottom of
the line NeXTstation.  I pay $3300 for the same product (educational). I
think I can reasonably assume he is making $1700 on the sale.

Apple enjoys high margins.  The dealers may not.

>Now, I too have no desire to hear a bunch of *****aholics condemning the Mac/
>Amiga/Next for whatever narrow-minded reason they have.  I guess I'd simply
>like to know why the Amiga and Next can be built and sold for so much less
>when they use (basically) the same chip set (remember I said basically) and
>are built in factories that use older, more expensive manufacturing techniques.

Well the NeXT has one of the most advanced computer manufacturing plants
in the world.  It is computer controlled and a small crew of people are
there just to make sure things run smoothly.

The Mac uses generic 680x0 hardware.  There is absolutely nothing special
about Mac hardware.  This is one reason you can run a Mac simulator on
an Atari or Amiga etc.  The special thing about a Mac is the ROMs and only
the ROMs.  Why do you think Apple is so willing to go to court to protect
them but has really never been to court to protect its hardware.

Apple has enjoyed artificially high prices on generic hardware because
for a long time the Mac was not necessarily the best, but the only machine
on the market with a GUI.   They had a unique product.  Now just about
every manufacturer has or will support some GUI or another.

People don't care if it says Apple and runs Mac software.  What they do
care about is ease of use.

Now you have machines like the NeXT, Amiga, Atari TT pushing on Apple to
provide a machine with a better price/performance ratio.  Apple is having
a difficult time doing that.  Look at the recent layoffs.  Apple has sold
more machines than they ever have, but their net earnings are lower than
they were last year.

>
>I've often said they will get my Mac away from me when they pry my dead, cold
>fingers off the mouse, but, it's getting real hard to justify the cost versus
>capabilities.  I used to be real good at convincing my wife that I needed a 
>new whatever, but, it's real hard to convince myself that I need to spend
>100+% more for a Mac than for some other machine (no matter what the name is).

Say no to expensive hardware.  Send a message to Apple, let them know that
you will no longer pay high prices for hardware that be competitive in a
performance war.

>
>I sure hope someone at Apple is reading this, because they are the only ones
>who can respond or do something about it.
>
>-- 
>Richard K. Mossman  {att,bellcore,sun,ames,decwrl}!pacbell!rkmossm
>415/823-0974
>=========================================================================
>"I need to put some distance between overkill and me!" -- E. John (1988)


--
/*  -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers.    */
/*      For I can only express my own opinions.              */
/*                                                           */
/*   Kent L. Shephard  : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.c