Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!uunet!mcsun!cernvax!chx400!bernina!bernina!neeri From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Ulrich Neeracher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer Subject: Re: removing balloon help.... Summary: A lesson in Interfacial Correctness (TM) Message-ID: Date: 14 Jun 91 11:46:47 GMT References: <1CE00001.h1mowr@avalon.caladan.wa.com> Sender: news@bernina.ethz.ch (USENET News System) Organization: Integrated Systems Laboratory, ETH, Zurich Lines: 104 In-Reply-To: stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com's message of 14 Jun 91 06:35:50 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: etzj-gw In article <1CE00001.h1mowr@avalon.caladan.wa.com> stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes: >In article <14058@goofy.Apple.COM>, lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) writes: > | Developers are encouraged to put their own help items there (rather than in > | the Apple menu, or in a hierarchical menu, or in the about box, or ...). > | The Finder does this already. You would lose access to these items without > | the help menu. > >The only thing that we currently lose, is the "promise" that everyone >will do this "in the future". I'd almost bet you that more than 50% of the applications that currently have a help menu item or button somewhere will do this in their next release. >Well that's all well and wonderful, >but I still don't understand why there is not an option for turning >this excess use of menubar space, off. Since nobody would add their help items to the menu then. >Consistancy can still be maintained >with the addition of a single option. I don't see that providing >a single (and seemingly popular) option, will cause the entire fabric >of the Apple usability universe to rip into shreds. Back in the good old times, there were also popular options to make the screen write white on black. Omitting the Apple menu in your application also used to be more popular than it is today. On my floppy-based systems, I also used to omit the Finder (Anybody out there remember Oasis ? Or PowerStation ?). The option to omit the balloon help menu might be popular today. It will be less so in a year. >If so then it >is truely built on shaky ground.. and perhaps that is the case with >Balloon help, which has already received reviews saying: cute, wish >you could turn it off, first time users might use it for awhile etc >etc. I remember what one of my employer's first reaction to the Switcher was: "You know, that's just a last desperate attempt to stop the unavoidable success of integrated packages like Lotus Jazz (Anybody remember Lotus Jazz ?). Nobody will want to switch between several programs if they can have it all in one program." >Now in practice a user will use an applications menu's constantly, that's >why developers place the important options on the menubar. I disagree. Some options are put on the menubar SO THEY ARE FOUND EASILY WHEN THEY ARE EVER NEEDED. Or do you seriously believe that "About ...", which is the most prominent option in a menubar, is used the most often ? >How often >do users use help? Most companies of any repute have dedicated a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What does that make Apple, a computer whorehouse ? >great deal of research to this, and I think you will find that interactive >Computer Based Training aids are more highly regarded than something >that pops up cartoon balloons.. really. Yeah, sure. How silly of me to assume Apple would have done any user interface research before implementing balloon help. As we all know, balloon help is just one of those features that were blindly copied from the Xerox Star. So, if you want to know how to type a non-breaking hyphen in , you fire up your interactive Computer Based Training aid ? Gee, there's something to be said for modern science. >Balloon help >is a nice touch, no doubt about it. But it will not be used.. really >used like a menu item should be. Is it "really" that important that >is "should" be on it's own menu (really.. think about it.. how many >times will a user turn on Balloon help to see a balloon that tells >them that the File menu contains Print and File items.. sheesh.. once.. >maybe twice if they are really desperate). Who am I to doubt your wisdom, gathered from the multitude of applications that currently use balloon help. >A menubar clock.. heck that gets used ALL the (pardon the pun) "time". Sure, I use one, too. >A Windows menu, I'd use all the time :-) That really depends on the application. >So beat us over >the head with it, they will. Yeah, like they did with their black on white displays, their icons, and their *mandatory* mice (You can't use those damn computers without one). I should've listened to my computer science teacher who predicted as early as 1985 that mouse/icon/window based interfaces would never be used except in "toys". (While I predicted as early as 1985 that 128K would be sufficient for all normal computing needs for a long time to come.) To make a long story short: Balloon Help is here to stay. The Help menu is a great idea. And it shouldn't take that much work to program Menu clocks to (optionally) overwrite the help icon. Matthias ----- Matthias Neeracher neeri@iis.ethz.ch "These days, though, you have to be pretty technical before you can even aspire to crudeness." -- William Gibson, _Johnny Mnemonic_