Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!haven.umd.edu!mimsy!uunet.UU.NET
From: snitor!petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Long gun for rural property advice request
Message-ID: <35505@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: 12 Jun 91 16:20:06 GMT
Sender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
Lines: 107
Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu

Alex Beylin outlined the following specs :

- medium range (15 acres = 269 yards square = 246 meters square)
- low recoil
- low price

He writes in <35290@mimsy.umd.edu> uunet!cfctech.cfc.com!alexb@cs.UMD.EDU:
#Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia.  Becouse any confrontation
#would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence 
#arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special.
#Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified 
#suburban/rural by the bank).  The house is located on 15 acres.
#About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the 
#rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses).
#What kind of guns am I likely to need?  I have two .22LR rifles,
#but they are only good for small vermin.  I would like to 
#have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a 
#large dog plus any two-legged threat.  While the Glock is
#most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to
#count on long distance hits when under preasure.
#
#I would like to buy an AR-15, but available cash will be short, at least 
#initially, so inexpensive or stagered approaches are prefered. (Surplus?).
#My very limited knowledge of shotgun capabilities suggests that may be
#a good alternative, but I have been lead to belive the recoil is quite
#strong, which would prevent my wife (96lb) from practicing sufficiently 
#to become proficient enough.
#

The range limitation implies shotguns, rifles with varmint (easily
disintegrating) bullets, or rifles with pistol bullets.
Given that the furthest one can be from the nearest fence line on a
rectangular 15 acre lot is ~130 yards (being in the middle of the square),
one has to watch for one's neighbours.  Even if the lot is long and narrow,
there tend to be few compelling reasons to fire a long one.  The size
and configuration of the neighbouring properties is of interest; i'll assume
they are 15 acre single house lots.

The low recoil limitation excludes many (if not most) rifle cartridges
and many shotgun rounds in most gauges.

The price limitation usually ends up expressing itself in accuracy, fit and
finish etc, assuming one does not trade on reliability.  Given the nature of
the beast and the ranges involved, it's not a grave (;^) concern.

Shotguns:
Shotguns have a dangerous range of ~200 yards with birdshot (#2),
~400 with buckshot (#00), and much further with sabot slugs (anyone know?).
Nonetheless, i know of nothing more versatile than a 12 gauge shotgun.
Loads effective (i.e. powerful and accurate) past a 100 yards are available
and coming down in price.  (Federal too loads a sabot slug now,
so BRI's monopoly is ove with).

The recoil from any shotgun load capable of producing results past 100 yards is
between noticeable and remarkable.  This is where i'd disqualify shotguns
for your purposes.

Maverics are the cheapest (Mossberg owned).  The Remington 870 is probably the
next best price/performance shotgun, together with the Mossberg 500.

Rifles (all cartridges):
They all go awfully far.  The dangerous ranges run from 1 1/2 mile for the 22,
through 3-5 miles for the centerfire stuff.  That can cover a lot of neighbours.

The recoil of the 223 is non-trivial, and is right there with low-end 30-30
loads, 7.62x39 loads, 44 Mag loads, etc.  Of the bottleneck cartridges your list
is short, and one can easily produce one by taking the muzzle momentum (energy
is second best) of a cartridge chosen for cutoff (say 30-30 for an upper limit),
and looking for all else below.

The lowly 22 is something to recon with well past 75 yards, and certainly fits.
It does ricochet though, so a 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire is better, because it
doesn't.  Given that you have 22s, i'd stay with them until you get what you
want.  If you insist, the 22WMR is good well past 100 yards, but good guns
for it (Ruger, et al) cost.

The 30/9/45/357/44/carbines are a great bet.  There is much to be said for
having a shoulder arm for the same cartridge as your sidearm.
Marlin makes good 9 and 45 semis, 357(?) and 44 levers.
Timberwolf is another 357 (who makes it ?).
The 30 carbines have the lowest recoil and the best ballistics.
If you can get a good one cheap, this is it.

The 223 is fine, but make sure of your backstop and use projectiles that
disintegrate if a fly looks at them sideways.  Stay away from surplus.
The 223 fmj penetrates rolled steel better than the 308 armor piercing round.
The guns for it are usually not cheap.

The 30-30 is nice, but make sure you use light projectiles (< 130 grain) for
low recoil.  These rounds also tend to be thin jacketed, so they will
disintegrate on the tree-trunks rather than glancing off and continuing intact.

The 7.62x39 is fine for your purposes.  It recoils like the 223 or a tad more,
but less than the 30-30.  Ammo is widely available, but reread my warning for
the 223.  The cheapest new gun you can get for you purpose is chambered for it.
It's the SKS (Simonov).  Cheaper than the AK-s (which take the same round), but
without the social stigma, and just as reliable (if not more so).
If you absolutely insist on buying a new, inexpensive "15 acre" gun, this is it.
Can be had with 10 or 15 round fixed magazines (with hinged floorplate),
loadable with stripper clips.  Golden key-Futura of Montrose, Co 81401,
(PoBox 1446, 1-800-448-7378) supplies 30 round mags that fit the well.
The D variant (SKS-D) accepts standard AK magazines.
Accuracy is sufficient out to 200 yards for what you want.

Good luck

Peter Toth