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From: JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .30 cal carbine (was Re: Long gun for rural property advice reques
Message-ID: <35611@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: 14 Jun 91 00:56:46 GMT
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Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu

In article <35479@mimsy.umd.edu>, marko@hutch (Mark O'Shea) says:
#
#In article <35433@mimsy.umd.edu> roc@sequent.com writes:
##I agree.  The .30 carbine is a good round that does not deserve the
##derision heaped upon it.  It's a relitively low power round (110
#
#Oh yes, it does.  I was required to shoot one for several years in the AF
#before the advent of the M16.  I was never able to qualify as an expert
#with it.  I was an NRA "Expert" class marksman in high power and qualified
#every time as an expert with the M16.  I shot on the Air Defense Command
#High Power Team for two years.
#
##grains at about 1500 fps, right?), but very controllable, and accurate
##enough at 100 yards to regularly hit a man size target.
#
#By who?
#
#The .30 cal carbine is a good plinker and maybe even a passable small
#game round (provided the game holds still for three rounds), but don't pass
#it off as a self defense weapon please.  All of the guys I know who where in
#Korea and got issued one of them, swapped it at the first opportunity for
#an M1.
#
#One of my elk hunting partners who was at Chosan (sp?) Reservoir calls the M1
#carbine (.30 cal) the "worst piece of shit I ever shot".
#
#My uncle who was in the National Guard for 25 years says the M1 is a .22 with
#delusions of grandeur.
#
#Gun Control Means Being Able to Hit Your Target
#Mark O'Shea
#marko@ijf1.intel.com


   OK, a question:  Was the carbine dropped by the Military due to it's
lack of stopping power, the usual complaint, or because it was unreliable?
S.L.A. Marshall in writing about the weapons used by the Americans in
the Korean War, wrote about the carbine's lack of reliablity , especially
in extreme cold.  I believe Edward Ezell's book " The great Rifle Contro-
versey" contains some footnotes regarding this.  (Although in reading Ezell's
book one get the impression that Army Ordanance never liked the little carbine:
the not invented here reaction)

   My own experiences with the M1 carbine are limited although I did have
one repeatedly malfunction in fairly cold weather (between 0 F and 10 F)
During that same time a Mini-14 we were shooting was also malfunctioning.
The only semi-auto that we had with us that worked flawlessly in the cold
was my M1 Garand.

   I've always thought that the .30 carbine cartridge should be compared
with the 9mm parabellum and not real rifle cartridges like the .308 or
even the .223

Just my two cents.
-------
MICHAEL F. GORDON             JCEHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

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