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From: boyd@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Birth of the 9mm
Message-ID: <35705@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: 15 Jun 91 23:47:51 GMT
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Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
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In article <35644@mimsy.umd.edu>, bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#The 9mm was perhaps a necked up .30 Luger (ACP), the .30 carbine
#case was developed by Winchester in the late 1930's unless I'm mistaken
#(I believe 9mm Luger came out in 1904).

Ah, yes more of this is coming back to me.  The Luger (chambered in .30 Luger)
was evaluated as a replacement sidearm for the German army.  A bigger bore 
was stipulated, so the designers took the .30 Luger and either hacked it 
off or necked it up to 9mm.  This enabled them to rechamber the guns only 
with two parts (a new barrel, and a spring).  The 9mm bore was a result 
of the incidental fact that the .30 Luger has a 9mm case diameter. 

The reason I say the was "less than scientific" is that a great many of 
our cartridges were very carefully designed, with lots of test cases.  From 
the 9mm story, it sounds like tooling convenience decided the final specs 
more than anything else, which makes it unusual.  Usually, bullets are 
designed first, then a case built around them to give the desired horsepower
and feeding characteristics.  When I say "bullets", I don't mean specific
molds, just the diameter and desired weight range.  This is how the .41 
Magnum (just to give an example) was designed.  A desired frontal area was 
choosen (for terminal performace), and various different bore sizes/weight 
combinations were tried until the desired figures were maximized (one of them
being a flat trajectory).  They came up with the magic number (.410"), and 
then worked on a case that was strong enough to take the umph needed to push
the bullet at desired speeds.  My point is that lots of thought and
experimentation went into the final specs.   

#
#This was probably in a rare fit of military "sanity" (as opposed to the
#normal condition for making ordinance decisions :-). Seriously, I would
#certainly not criticize this decision at all (look how long 9mm 
#Parabellum has been around and how many current arms are chambered
#for it -- they were defintely on the ball when they requested this
#change). Don't get me wrong, I *like* .30 Luger, but for a lot of
#reasons the 9mm Luger cartridge is just a better all around choice
#for military/police work.

I accede that the 9mm is a step up from the old .30 Luger.  However, with 
modern components in a modern gun (both of which would be hard to find in 
this caliber :-), who's to say?  It has about as much chance as the 9mm 
did, hee hee.  

Thank you for pointing out that the .30 Luger is the cartridge I was thinking
of.  At some point, I will find my printed version of the whole story and 
will post a summary (there is still a couple of chuckles left in the story,
something about the rest of the Luger's journey to acceptance by the German 
army).

The above is IMHO.  Direct flames elsewhere. 

-- 
             Mickey R. Boyd          |  "God is a comedian playing to an 
          FSU Computer Science       |      audience too afraid to laugh."
        Technical Support Group      |
      email:  boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu  |                  - Voltaire