Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!osnome.che.wisc.edu!hunting
From: ut-emx!shawn@emx.utexas.edu (Shawn Boyd)
Newsgroups: rec.hunting
Subject: Re: Broadheads (long!)
Keywords: Archery tackle, broadheads, stabilizers
Message-ID: <1991Jun14.080839.24423@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Date: 14 Jun 91 13:08:39 GMT
References: <1991Jun13.085437.18841@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas
Lines: 182
Approved: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu


In article <1991Jun13.085437.18841@doug.cae.wisc.edu> marko@hutch (Mark O'Shea) writes:
>Hi Again,
>
>Well I've got my bow and I've followed most of your advice.  I practice
>at least once a week.  I've got it all sighted in and I can put all the
>arrows inside the red ring at 30 yards and in the blue at 50 yards.  I got
>a release and that made one heck of a difference-thanks for that guys.
>

Hello Mark,

Sounds like pretty durn good shooting to me.  

I saw your comments/questions on equipment, and have some references
you might be interested in.  I've only been shooting my bow for a
little over two years now, and have only recently begun hunting with
it.  Last season we went for deer and javelina.  No kills yet, but
those come with time.  I have been looking seriously at equipment for
some time now, and must say I agree with you about releases.  I shoot
a Trophy Hunter myself, and don't plan to go back to fingers (tab or
glove) unless I start shooting a recurve in FITA shoots.  Anyway, my
experience is by no means the best you'll benefit from, but here's
what I've found out about broadheads and stabilizers.

>I am about to buy some broadheads.  The season begins in just over two
>months and I want to be sure and have them and shoot them a time or two
>so I know how they shoot.
>
 
Take a serious look at Muzzy's.  They're made up by the archer by
component (as are most broadheads nowadays) before the hunt.  Muzzy's
are somewhat special in that they have fully interlocking cutting
blades which slide into the ferrule in a way which guarantees that
they absolutely won't slip out after the broadhead is assembled --
surprisingly not all broadheads have this feature :-( and I've been
particularly disappointed with certain triblades in this regard.  The
muzzy tip is its most distinctive feature.  The firm refers to it as a
"trocar" tip (apparently the term comes to us from old French mean-
ing three sided blade or the rough equivalent).  It's a chisel like
component which screws down over the ferrule at the point, and locks
in the cutting blades.  It's a very tough little unit.  I shoot with a
friend who's been at this a lot longer than I have.  He's a darn good
shot, and hunts regularly, and he swears by 'em.  The company is Muzzy
Products Inc., 3705 S.W. 42nd Place Gainesville, Florida 32608
(904/372-5943).  Their catalog is free.

Along the more classic lines, the Savora Superflites are fairly
rugged, and lend themselves more easily than Muzzy's to resharpening
(IMHO) and if you want a lotta steel on the front of your arrow, check
out the Bear Super Razor Head -- it's got two breakaway bleeder blades
which inflict trauma right to bone at which point they (hopefully)
breakaway allowing the heavy (and I mean heavy) steel two sided main
blade to (again hopefully) keep going.  The main blade is chiselled by
the factory at the tip.  You can easily shave arm hairs with any of
these right out of the bubble package they come in.  BTW, ignore the
Bear tri-blade offering; it's worthless -- the blades come out of the
ferrule at the slightest provocation.

One of the more exotic developments are the collapsibles which have
blades which fold into the body of the ferrule, and spring open on
impact with your target.  Apparently, these fly more like field/bullet
points most of us use to practice with, and cause less planing at the
front of the arrow -- ain't no wings (in the form of cutting blades)
out there to cause this to happen.  I'm sorry to say I haven't tried
these yet, so I personally can't vouch for them, but the reviews I've
read have been downright rave.  I'll let you know if I find out
anything else.  WATCH OUT -- these are not legal in all states.  I am
also not sure how the blades are replaced if broken or dulled.

I find more debate about broadheads than I know how to listen or
respond to, so I tend to proffer what I hope will be informed advice
when asked and make sure I respect everyone else's as well when the
subject of broadheads comes up.  Chuck Adam's Bowhunter's Digest has
an excellent chapter on the subject, and I recommend it.  One thing I
will say without equivocation, and of which I am 100 percent sure;
your broadheads have just got to be sharp.  No debate, no
qualifications.  A dull broadhead might be good for parts, or MAYBE
practice.  I personally won't have one in my kit, and would never
shoot one at an animal.  I'm sure you know this.  Please forgive me
for "preaching to the choir."  One item which really helps here is a
couple of good broadhead cases.  They run six or seven bucks (you can
spend more if you want to, but it's not necessary) and they do a great
job of protecting an expensive and deadly piece of tackle.

>I have more questions.  Given that the weight is the same, e.g. 125 grains,
>will the broadhead's design affect the arrow's flight.  Is there a "best"
>design in your opinion?  Is there a brand/type/style to avoid?
>
 
Anyone who's shooting good groups at fifty yards has my respect.  It
took me quite a while to get there, so I offer this as an opinion
only.  I like Muzzy's a lot.  My opinion is still conjecture only
(until I've killed with the tip) but I've shot them, handled,
assembled and disassembled them, and am impressed with their
sturdiness, flight characteristics and reputation for deadliness.
They come in packs of five for $20.00 to $25.00 from various retailers
(nope, they ain't cheap) and include a set of practice blades which do
a good job of simulating the flight characteristics of the hunting
blades.  You install the practice blades in the ferrule when
practicing before the hunt, and you have an arrow which flies the same
with its practice tips as with its hunting tips.  Actually the
difference between the practice and hunting blades is merely that the
practice blades are not Solengen steel, and are not sharpened.  The
hunting blades are.  I generally leave these at home, unless I go out
specifically for the purpose of practicing with my broadheads, and I
don't keep them in my hunting kit.

In answer to your question about broadhead design affecting arrow
flight, alas yes it will.  The amount depends on how all of your
tackle shoots together and how you the archer shoot with it.  I've
seen some guys screw on a broadhead and tune up in 10 or 20 shots.
I've seen some that looked like they shouldn't be shooting that day
after they put on their broadheads.  I have fallen into both
categories, and can only say from both happy and sad experiences on
the matter, that you often find that trial and error are the best
teachers.  Ouch!

I shoot a 30" XX75 2213 (at 70 lbs peak draw) off a fork rest through
a center shot handle riser.  I've shot a little 90 grain Muzzy (and
yes they make them in other sizes) up through a 145 grain Bear off my
bow, and have found that five inch, "high-profile" fletching can go a
long way toward helping the problems you may have.  It certainly
helped me.

>May the wind be in your favor.
>

And yours as well; especially just as you're taking your shot.

>BTW when last I asked for advice it was about stabilizers.  The consensus was
>that they were more for target shooting.  

Certainly true for recurves, but personally with my compound I prefer
to use a stabilizer -- not one of those long ones, mind you; mine's a
six inch 12 oz.  Accra #3200.  Even a small stabilizer will help
eliminate torque, and it's awful hard to shoot with a soft hand when
the temperature is below freezing.  I speak from experience on that
one.  I won't epoxy my stabilizer into the handle riser of my bow, but
I've never shot without it since I put it on.  It doesn't make as much
difference as 24 or 30 inch 1 1/2 pound rod, but it does make some
difference, and of course the long ones just aren't practical in the
brush.  It also just happens to make my bow a leeettle teensy bit
quieter, so I leave it on.  They run about $5.00 or $10.00.  What the
heck, get one and put it in your kit; you might like it.  They can
also be screwed into extender rods to use on the range for some fun
when you target shoot.  They do make a difference.  You can also get a
knuckle joint that allows them to collapse down parallel to the handle
riser when not in use, but allowing immediate pop up so you can bring
it into quick service when you're starting your hunt.  Very handy if
your case is too small for the bow and the stabilizer together.
  
>I found-as one person suggested-a looser grip on the bow eliminated the twist 
>and subsequent low-left tendency.

Absolutely.  The person(s) who told you this, knew their stuff; but
just try it on a cold cold cold day.  I shoot this way, and recommend
the technique.  The last time I measured was over a year ago, but at
that time this method of release took an average of 1 3/4 diameter
inches off my groups at forty yards.  Anyway, if you intend to make
this your style, be sure to consider a wrist sling.  I've seen good
archers drop their bow more than once.  I've never dropped mine, but
without my wrist sling I most assuredly would have.

>I decided against getting a stabilizer-less weight.  Where I plan to hunt is
>at 4500' and up so the less weight the better.

Sounds cold, maybe wet too.  Definately think about a wrist sling.  I
sure do like mine.  It removes the temptation to shoot hammer fisted
when conditions are challenging.

You can save yourself some $$$ on this stuff with mail orders.  I have
the addresses of several good discount outlets if you're interested,
and don't already have them.  Bowhunting World also has a special
equipment issue just out which they are leaving on your dealer's racks
throught December '91.  It's $4.00, but it's worth it.

Best of luck with your Hunting.  I probably will pipe down after this
posting.  Generally I'm not verbose, and rarely post; but archery
always excites me.  Good to meet you.

   Sincerely,
 
   Shawn Boyd
   Austin, Texas